X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to opendos-bounces using -f From: Jamie Ferrier To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Subject: RE: opendos weekly digest for 04 Oct 2003 Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 06:58:38 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <200310050405.h9545168010861@delorie.com> Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: opendos AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk Datalight's ROM-DOS uses the COPYCMD environment variable as well as the /Y and /-Y parameters for Copy and Xcopy in it's 7.1 versions. Copy supported those commands in the final 6.22 release. Regards, Jamie > Q 1: Is there no environment variable named COPYCMD in other 6.22-vs? > > Q 2: How differs the command line syntax of XCOPY in other than German vs? > > Here is the (translated) command line syntax of the German vs of 6.22: > > XCOPY [/Y|/-Y] [/A|/M] [/D:Date] [/P] [/S] [/E] > [/V] [/W] > > To enable or disable overwriting, the params /Y or /-Y are used, > where /-Y in case of identical filenames leads to the system's question > "... overwrite ...?", otherwise always is overwritten. > >>> > > Regards, > > Peter Lindner > > Peter Lindner, Aue Nr. 37, D-91177 Thalmaessing, Tel. +49-9173-1844 > E-Mail: PLind AT Web DOT DE or Lindner-Thalmaessing AT T-Online DOT DE >  > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > From: shadow AT shadowgard DOT com > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:49:27 -0700 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Subject: Re: confirm before over-write > Message-ID: <3F76E6E7 DOT 32632 DOT 7137781 AT localhost> > In-reply-to: <1A3f2E-0IBhZI0 AT fwd00 DOT sul DOT t-online DOT com> > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) > Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > Content-description: Mail message body > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com > X-Mailing-List: opendos AT delorie DOT com > X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com > Precedence: bulk > > On 28 Sep 2003 at 19:08, Lindner-Thalmaessing AT t-online wrote: > > > *DOS-version 4.22*??? Leonard Erickson objected (absolutely correct): > > > > > This is the first *I* have ever heard of a version > > > 4.22. The only 4.x versions I'd ever heard of before > > > were 4.00, which was a major disaster and 4.01 which > > > fixed the bugs that made 4.00 the disaster. > > > Would you be so kind as to type VER at a DOS prompt > > > and posted what it returns, along with a > > > translation? > > > > Sorry |-( *my fault*! My (German) version of MS-DOS is 6.22, not 4.22. > > Typing VER on my system returns "4DOS 5.50 DOS 6,22". As far as I > > know vs 6.22 is the last vs of MS-DOS, at least in Germany. My > > directory C:\DOS shows(vs# in time stamp): XCOPY.EXE 17.250 > > A 31/05/1994 06:22:00 MOVE.EXE 18.613 A 31/05/1994 > > 06:22:00 > > I think that IBM released a version 7 of PC-DOS. And the DOS > that underlies Win95 and Win 98 is a version 7. > > > Nevertheless - I wonder but now have learned that there must be a lot > > of users still using and remembering much older DOS versions than me, > > and work on even more ancient computers. The 3-/4-versions were up to > > date before I became blind in 1991/92, and I worked with them as long > > I still could see. > > I have a copy of PC-DOS 1.1. :-) > > > Q 1: Is there no environment variable named COPYCMD in other 6.22-vs? > > I can't check that until I get a chance to boot one of my > systems under DOS 5 & 6. > > > Q 2: How differs the command line syntax of XCOPY in other than German > > vs? > > Well, I posted the syntax of the versions I could check > easily. Checking others would require digging out old boot > disks. > > -- > Leonard Erickson (aka shadow) > shadow at krypton dot rain dot com > > > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > Message-ID: > <01FD6EC775C6D4119CDF0090273F74A4FD6B79 AT emwatent02 DOT meters DOT com DOT au> > From: "da Silva, Joe" > To: "'opendos AT delorie DOT com'" > Subject: RE: devicelogics site > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:48:23 +1000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) > Content-Type: text/plain > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > It works OK for me. > > Joe. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Florian Xaver [SMTP:flox AT drdos DOT org] > > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 6:52 PM > > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > Subject: devicelogics site > > > > Hi! > > > > Does somebody know what's up? The customer area is a dead link since a > > week or so. > > > > bye, flox > > > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > Message-ID: <3F77E738 DOT 7040806 AT drdos DOT org> > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:03:04 +0200 > From: Florian Xaver > User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; > rv:1.5) Gecko/20030916 > X-Accept-Language: en-us, en > MIME-Version: 1.0 > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Subject: Re: devicelogics site > In-Reply-To: > <01FD6EC775C6D4119CDF0090273F74A4FD6B79 AT emwatent02 DOT meters DOT com DOT au> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > > Sorry, i was very tired yesterday ... i meant the "Community Login", the > forum of the drdos.com webpage. > > bye, flox > > da Silva, Joe wrote: > > It works OK for me. > > -- > Florian Xaver > > http://www.drdos.org / http://www.ostbahn.de.vu > http://www.flox.at.tf / www.denk-fanpage.at.tf > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > Message-ID: > <01FD6EC775C6D4119CDF0090273F74A4FD6B7E AT emwatent02 DOT meters DOT com DOT au> > From: "da Silva, Joe" > To: "'opendos AT delorie DOT com'" > Subject: RE: devicelogics site > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:39:10 +1000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) > Content-Type: text/plain > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > Oh ... Well, that seems broken. :-/ > > I guess your next step is to e-mail devicelogics and ask them. > > Joe. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Florian Xaver [SMTP:flox AT drdos DOT org] > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 6:03 PM > > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > Subject: Re: devicelogics site > > > > > > Sorry, i was very tired yesterday ... i meant the "Community > Login", the > > forum of the drdos.com webpage. > > > > bye, flox > > > > da Silva, Joe wrote: > > > It works OK for me. > > > > -- > > Florian Xaver > > > > http://www.drdos.org / http://www.ostbahn.de.vu > > http://www.flox.at.tf / www.denk-fanpage.at.tf > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:58:29 +1000 (EST) > From: DONALD PEDDER > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Subject: Re: confirm before over-write > In-Reply-To: <3F74E134 DOT 3996 DOT B901C43 AT localhost> > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com > X-Mailing-List: opendos AT delorie DOT com > X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com > Precedence: bulk > > > > Again, compatability can be maintained by having it switched off by > > > default, but that's no reason to dis-able it from being > switched on when > > > desired. > > > > Again, it's not a matter of "switched off". It's a matter of the option > > *not existing*. > > "switched off", "not exisitng" - whatever words you use, it's not > there (unlike most packages). > > > > > Compatability doesn't demand it be permanently disabled (only Bill > > > trying to get people to stop using DOS dictates things getting > > > permanently disabled - and in trying to get people away from MS, > > > DR-DOS should be as flexible as possible to enhance it's appeal). > > > > Again, you are *assuming* that the intended market is home use. > > Where have I assumed that? I stated that DOS/Windows was part of the > push to get personal use of computers (which was demonstrably successful) > - that was 20 years ago. Today Bill Gates' intention is to get rid of DOS > altogether, and Lineo was pushing for the embedded systems market (I don't > know about the latest owners). > > As I said, if you want to make as much money as possible, you have to > make your product as attractive as possible. Home use is PART of the > market, so the better it is for home use, the more money you're likely to > make. Personal use is cream on top of the business cake. > > > > True enough. But that's why my backup routines went > > like this: > > > > Backup to tape > > Verify backups > > And sometimes backups become un-usable even after a successful > verification. People shouldn't have to rely on backups. They are just that > - a back-up, a back-up plan. Plan B. What you resort to when Plan A > doesn't work. That's why they're called "backups". > > > > The IBM PC was designed as an "under the table" project by some IBM > > engineers. When Visicalc got the Apple into businesses in a big way, IBM > > management started looking for a "personal computer" that could be sold > > to both buisiness and home, but they expected the real money to be > > business users. > > My understanding is that IBM wanted to get into the growing personal > computer market (having only manufactured business machines before - > I.B.M., International Business Machines - mainframes and mid-ranges). They > might've wanted to sell it to business too, and maybe even get more money > from business, but the aim was still to get into the personal market. Get > some cream on top of the cake. Having a computer that could be sold to > both business and personal users is a change to what they'd done > before, which was only sell to business. IBM wanted a presence in the > personal computer market, and DOS/Windows was central to that project. > Whether it's a minor share or not, DOS was aimed at a market that > includes personal users (and should therefore be able to be programmed in > a suitable way). > > > > I just checked a DOS reference manual (that covered versions from 1.0 on > > up thru 3.3) and the *only* options for copy were /A, /B and /V. > > MS-DOS (Win95) has prompting by default (I know, because I just checked > it by actually doing an xcopy), PINE has prompting by default, FTP has > prompting by default - DR-DOS is the ONLY tool I am currently using which > doesn't prompt for confirmation before overwrite. > > > > I checked the PC-DOS 4.01 and MS-DOS 5.01 manuals and had no luck > > either. The Novell DOS 6.0 manual lists /c as the switch for > > confirmation. > > I am pretty sure that when I was using 6 point something, it was there > by default (but that was a while ago). > > > > And that does work in DR-DOS 7.03. I had missed it before because 4dos > > uses /C for "copy changed files only" > > Aha! It's not showing up, so after all this arg... er, spirited > discussion, :-) the ultimate answer to my question is that the option DOES > exist (although it's not the default), but it's undocumented. Is there a > way to make it the default? I don't have any experience with undocumented > features (obviously I can't look it up if it's undocumented). > > Thanks for finding that for me. I was going to try and see if I had any > disks still for 6.whatever, since I was sure it was there, but now you've > found it for me. > > > > Alas, since copy is built into command.com, you can't use the batch file > > dodge to "force" the /c. > > I don't understand. Are you saying that "copy ... .... /c" in a batch > file won't work? Why not? Confused. > > > thanks, > dp. > > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > From: shadow AT shadowgard DOT com > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:44:51 -0700 > Subject: Re: confirm before over-write > Message-ID: <3F786183 DOT 26223 DOT 4E97861 AT localhost> > In-reply-to: > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02) > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > On 30 Sep 2003 at 1:58, DONALD PEDDER wrote: > > > > True enough. But that's why my backup routines went > > > like this: > > > > > > Backup to tape > > > Verify backups > > > > And sometimes backups become un-usable even after a successful > > verification. People shouldn't have to rely on backups. They > are just that > > - a back-up, a back-up plan. Plan B. What you resort to when Plan A > > doesn't work. That's why they're called "backups". > > Well, given that a "proper" backup scheme involves > daily, weekly, monthly and yearly backups (though > the latter two are mostly for archival purposes, not > for restoration of the system), you really have to > have problems for the backups to be useless. > > Then again, that sortof thing was overkill for most > home systems. > > > > Alas, since copy is built into command.com, you can't use the > batch file > > > dodge to "force" the /c. > > > > I don't understand. Are you saying that "copy ... .... /c" in a batch > > file won't work? Why not? Confused. > > No, I'm saying that since "copy" is in internal > function of command.com, you can't use the dodge > that we used with the *external* format program. > > The dodge worked because we could rename FORMAT.COm > to something else and create a FORMAT.BAT. > > Doing that with COPY requires (if you are lucky) > using a hex editor to patch COMMAND.COM > > Somebody posting something about a COPYCMD > environment variable. No oidea how (or *if*) it > works in DR-dOs. > > -- > Leonard Erickson (aka shadow) > shadow at krypton dot rain dot com > > > > ------------------------------ > > X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to > opendos-bounces using -f > Message-ID: > <01FD6EC775C6D4119CDF0090273F74A4FD6B83 AT emwatent02 DOT meters DOT com DOT au> > From: "da Silva, Joe" > To: "'opendos AT delorie DOT com'" > Subject: RE: confirm before over-write > Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:31:31 +1000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) > Content-Type: text/plain > Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > The following might be useful in this context. It's a batch file > I call MVN.BAT, which moves files which are "new" only, as > in files that don't exist in the destination directory. In other > words, it won't overwrite files. > > You may be able to modify it to provide prompt-on-replace > capability using COPY, XCOPY or REPLACE (and call it > something appropriate, of course) ... > > @echo off > REM MVN V1.11a (C) JdS 2000 [Freeware] > if $%1==$ goto help > if $%1==$/? goto help > if $%1==$/h goto help > if $%1==$/H goto help > if $%2==$ goto default1 > if $%OS%==$DRDOS if not direxist %2 goto help > REM Check if destination is a root directory ... > if %2==\ goto root > for %%d in (a b c d e f g h i j k l m) do if %2==%%d:\ goto root > for %%d in (n o p q r s t u v w x y z) do if %2==%%d:\ goto root > for %%d in (A B C D E F G H I J K L M) do if %2==%%d:\ goto root > for %%d in (N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z) do if %2==%%d:\ goto root > :dir > REM Destination is not a root directory ... > if not $%OS%==$DRDOS if not exist %2\nul goto help > if $%1==$ for %%f in (*.*) do if not exist %2\%%f move %%f %2 > if not $%1==$ for %%f in (%1) do if not exist %2\%%f move %%f %2 > goto end > :root > REM Destination is a root directory ... > if not $%OS%==$DRDOS if not exist %2nul goto help > if $%1==$ for %%f in (*.*) do if not exist %2%%f move %%f %2 > if not $%1==$ for %%f in (%1) do if not exist %2%%f move %%f %2 > goto end > :default1 > REM One argument, try to re-invoke MVN with default *.* filename_mask ... > if $%0==$ MVN *.* %1 > if not $%0==$ %0 *.* %1 > echo Error - Unable to default "Filename_Mask" (couldn't locate > MVN.BAT) ... > echo. > :help > echo MVN - Move New [Files] (Move files not already at destination) > echo. > echo Usage : MVN [Filename_Mask] Destination_Directory > echo. > :end > > Joe. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Gary Welles [SMTP:gary AT wellesway DOT com] > > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 10:46 PM > > To: OpenDos > > Subject: Re: confirm before over-write > > > > Eric Meyer, author of Video Display Editor (VDE) complained of > > these same deficiencies and wrote his own utilities. Now > > freeware, MFD v1.2 is available at: > > > > http://short.stop.home.att.net/index.htm > > http://www.geocities.com/rlcgreen/softlib1.htm > > > > -- Gary Welles > > > > +-------- > > The MFD (Meyer File/Directory) Utilities are a collection of six > > small, > > efficient DOS programs that offer more powerful and convenient > management > > of > > files and directories than standard DOS commands: > > > > * find or operate on files by name, time/date, attributes, or size > > * compactly display a full range of file and directory information > > * change file or directory names, attributes, or time/date > > * compare directory contents, showing different files and versions > > * copy, move, back up (archive), and delete files efficiently > > * find, create, or move levels of directories quickly > > * easily customize default options > > > > What's more, to get all these features, you don't need to change or > > replace any part of standard DOS, or load a big awkward shell. . . . > > +--------- > > ------------------------------ > > End of opendos weekly digest for 04 Oct 2003 > ********************************************