Message-ID: <01FD6EC775C6D4119CDF0090273F74A4FD6752@emwatent02.meters.com.au> From: "da Silva, Joe" To: "'opendos AT delorie DOT com'" Subject: RE: DOS/Linux coexistence (was: [Club Dr-DOS]) #2b Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 19:33:43 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Please see below ... Joe. > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob McGee [SMTP:i812 AT softhome DOT net] > Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:57 PM > To: 'opendos AT delorie DOT com' > Subject: Re: DOS/Linux coexistence (was: [Club Dr-DOS]) #2 > > On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 06:57:00PM +1000, da Silva, Joe wrote: > > Thanks for the great tips, I'm sure some day I'll be > > more familiar with all this stuff. I guess I take for > > granted the knowledge and familiarity with DOS, > > It's also worth noting that DOS lacks the complexity of UNIX. Consider > file attributes, for example. In DOS you have A, H, R, S configurable > through attrib, and you have a file modified date stamp. UNIX has 2 > forms of ownership (user and group) with read, write and execute > permissions set individually. There is a file creation time, modified > time, and last access time. > > You can reach proficiency on a user level without knowing all the > intricate details of UNIX, of course, but it's not going to be as easy > to fully understand everything about UNIX. > > > BTW, my Linux distribution is Mandrake 8.0, > > That's a very popular choice with a large user community. They have > newsgroups and Web forums. Mandrake caters to the newbie above all, and > they work hard to smooth out the learning curve. > > > although I understand this is based on Red Hat anyway. > > Originally, yes, but they have long since been putting out their own > product. Early Mandrake (6.0?) was just a tweaked Red Hat, but now they > build the whole thing. > > > > > Speaking of 'dosemu', I downloaded the "DR-DOS emulator" image > > > > file from "www.drdos.com" ... does anybody know what I'm supposed > > > > > > An "image file" is usually mountable via the loop driver. If you're > > > talking about the "DOSEMU HDIMAGE" on the download page, that's > exactly > > > what it is. You can mount it, probably with commands like this: > > > > > OK, I'll try what you've suggested. I'm not sure why > > But that wasn't really what I was suggesting. :) You *can* mount it but > that won't do anything. If you want to run DOS you have to use emulator > code (such as dosemu or Bochs). > > > you say this is "the same as you probably already > > have", though. Isn't this stuff supposed to be Linux > > code that emulates DR-DOS? > > No. This is DR-DOS 7.03. That's all it is. It won't do anything on Linux > without an emulator. > [Joe da Silva] Hmmm ... Well, that's disappointing. I thought this was Caldera/Lineo's emulation of DR-DOS. If it's nothing more than the standard DR-DOS files, I may as well not have bothered to download this, especially if I can use my existing DR-DOS partition instead. Incidentally, when I initially looked at the 'dosemu' instructions, I'm sure the mention of "mounting" drives would have been enough to scare me away! I'll look into this 'dosemu' stuff again as soon as time permits. Hopefully it won't look as scary now! > > What I already have is real DR-DOS (6.0:-), which I'm sure won't > > run under Linux, right? > > It will run with dosemu or Bochs. > > Here was my suggestion: > > > Your answer is in the dosemu documentation. You edit /etc/dosemu.conf > > > (IIRC) to tell dosemu to boot that image as "drive C:". There are > > > examples in that file which show you how to do it. > > That's how to *use* an image for dosemu. The thing about "mount" only > lets you read and write that image. Note that in /etc/dosemu.conf you > can specify disk image files and even hard disk partitions as your DOS > drives. I think you can also access portions of your Linux filesystem > in DOS under dosemu, if you configure it that way. > > BTW I am intentionally *not* consulting the dosemu docs for any of this. > I'm going only on my (often faulty) memory, because I think beginners > are best served by general pointers, and then by finding the specifics > through reading the documentation on their own. > [Joe da Silva] I agree. General pointers are all that's needed. Being totally lost sure makes it difficult to "tell the wood from the trees" ... > > IIRC, I did install 'dosemu', but "haven't been game" to > > try it. I remember starting to read the documentation > > for this and deciding to postpone this experiment until > > I became more familiar with Linux. > > That's up to you, of course, but I think having DOS available from Linux > might help ease your transition. I don't think there was much essential > information in the dosemu docs. The configuration file (above) is self- > documenting, with comments and examples. Read it, edit it, and type > "dos" at the bash prompt -- you're running DOS. > > There is one little detail, though, and I don't know how the Mandrake > package chose to handle it: dosemu needs root privileges. The "dos" > binary may be "setuid" (set user ID) to take the privileges it needs; or > you may have to run it as root. > > The simple way around this, without reading the docs, is to run it as > root. In general, running user software as root is a *** BAD IDEA *** > because any mistakes can crash, and possibly even destroy, your system. > So don't make a habit of this. > > (Everything on DOS is "run as root" because there are no user accounts > nor varied permission levels.) > [Joe da Silva] Yeah, I know, the *nix world is very protective of root privileges, whereas DOS users take such privileges as their natural right. I'm sure I'm not the only user from the DOS world that invariably runs as "root". One of the first things I did, after spending two days trying to figure out how, was to "SUID" (I think that's what it's called) the "shutdown" command. I think it's absurd that a "pleb" user can easily hit the reset or power switch, yet is by default not allowed to shut down the system properly! Strange priorities these *nix folks have! > In all this talk about DOS and dosemu I've made an assumption that you > have some favourite DOS software upon which you rely. If that's not the > case, just disregard all of it. :) Almost anything you did in DOS can be > done under Linux with GNU and other software. > [Joe da Silva] Yes, there are MANY favourite programs that I miss from the DOS world, like John Whitney's "Visual Compare", Peter Norton's "Text Search", DR-DOS's "XDIR", which I like much, much better than the GNU/Linux alternatives. I find many of the latter have a myriad of switches, yet none of them do what you actually want/need (for example, the "-R" switch of "ls" is utterly useless, far inferior to the "/s" switch in "xdir"). > > > toss in a bit of spam. :) I do consulting on a rather low-cost basis, > > > even barter. If it's worth it for you to spend a little money or mail > me > > > > Interesting idea (especially barter) ... although as you say, > > probably not so practical across the Pacific Ocean. > > As you can imagine, I haven't made much of an income in this profession. > ;) But perhaps someday, I figure. > [Joe da Silva] Your name's not W.G. the III, huh? ;-) > Good luck -- let me know how it goes. > > Rob - /dev/rob0