X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <013e01c09770$49c89f70$34822a40@dbcooper> From: "Patrick Moran" To: References: <01FD6EC775C6D4119CDF0090273F74A4021F5D AT emwatent02 DOT meters DOT com DOT au> Subject: Re: Master/slave jumper settings Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 08:02:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Oh yes I remeber those dats. You can even add floppy, MFM, and RLL drives to that list. They had cable with twists in them and some that dod not, so you had to figure out what you had and which drive would be which when you connected a second drive to the system and figure out which drive had to have the terminating resister pack installed. The fubby part of it is that both floppy and HD had 34 pin cables and you could accidently get them mixed up and neither your floppies or your HDs would work. The twist in the cables were just slightly different! Thre was this one idiot where I worked that just did not seem to want to read and follow the directions. So he installed the second drive and did not bother to change the the resister pack from the orginal drive to the new drive. Bith drives were the same capacity. So the idiot low level formatted the second drive (or so he thought) and managed to low level format both drives simualtaneously and lost all of his data and programs on the original drive. I jus laughed at him and told him they put those instructions in there for a reason. My self I would have completely disconnected the comtrol and data cables from the original drive and istalled the new drive as the only drive and low level and high level formatted that drive, then reinstall the origibal drice as the first drive and the new one as the second drive. There are horror stiories like this concerning the eatly SCSI drives too. SCSI-I as we now call it, was a lot like IDE is, everyone had their own standards and did not follow the real SCSI standards. Then either the IEE and/or IEEE steped in and laid down the SCSI rules and got that mess straightened out. I don't know if they will ever get the IDE mess straightened out. You have all these different stnadards within the IDE standard, instead of a single standard that would apply to ALL IDE devices and force all manufactures to follow the strict standards instead of coming up with their own concocted vatiations of the standards. There were also some concoctions they came up with in the early days of IDE to use two drives on a single controller. Some just made a mirror image of the first drive and others would use both drives as one and they were formatted accordingly. That was just another big mess and no standards were set for doing that stuff. This crap does not just apply to IDE or early SCSI, or MFM, or even drives. There were several standards for ethernet cards, printer interfaces and look what IBM did to the serial interface standard when they came out with the so-called AT serial standard where they reduced the 25 pin serial srandard down to 9 pins. You could probably write several books about these so-called standards on just the IBM PC alone. You may even remember the crap for standards with IBM PC video. Finally several manufactures got together and created VESA. VESA set the video standards and IBM screamed their heads off because VESA was not going to include some of the new IBM video standards. VESA told IBM to shove it because IBM would not realease their new standards as they wanted them secret so they could monopolize that end of the market. As it turned out they did either by accident or at the last minute IBM gave in and included the 8514 standard. I do not think the IBM's XGA stardard got included, but remember something about it working with VESA cards and was probably eventually included into the VESA standard. We had the same crap with Vesa Local Bus. Some idiot manufactures decided that people would only use their card, so they did not bother to put any buffering on their cards and would load down the bus too much if you installed a second VLB card. Originally it was just called Local Bus and VESA stepped in and made some standards to reduce the maximum loading so that up to three VESA cards could be put into a system without excessive loading of the Local Bus. Like I say, you can write books about these so-called standards. Fortumately, PCI is not too bad, because Intel laid down the rules for that and developed entirely on their own and inplemented it before a bunch of idiot enfineers from various maufactures messed that up for us. Look at the mess that was created with memory managers to use extended and EMS and EEMS memory. We DOS users are still living with that mess. VCPI, DPMI, EMS, EEMS, XMS, LIM 3.2, LIM 4.0, etc. Look at the mess with modem standards: VFP, v.32/v.32bis. V.90, Kflex. And the list just goes on and on and on, with no end in site. That is why I decided to go with SCSI. It is an IEEE/IEE standard. That is why I use Legacy cards whenever possible. The next thing we have to look forward to will be a mess concerning the USB standard if it is not already a mess. It is SUPPOSED to be the end to port problems because of a lack of IRQ's and you supposedly can daisy chain your external divices with USB. But wait until you get a printer daisy chained to an external DVD drive and neither will work because some idiot engineers came up their own idiot varitions of the USB standard. You would think that after nearly 30 years of the micro computer, these idiots would have learned something. Well they did, they managed to learn how to screw things up for everyone! And they are still doing it. I now have a 58K moddem with both Kflex and v.90 and can get fast connections no matter what I connect to. But with my old 28.8 VFP modem I could not connect at 28.8 with many of the 33K and 56K modems out there. Some of these connect would never go higher than 14.4. Why, because of incomaptibility. No get a load of this. My ISP has two phone numbers you can connect to, one line is for didgital modems, this is where I get my good highspeed connect. The other number is for analog modems and all their modems on this line are 33K. I cannot ever get a 33K connect on that line with this 56K modem and am very lucky to get a 19.2 connect and the highest I have ever gotten on the line with either the 28.8 or the 56K is 26.4 and that is very rare. Part of this is due to the lousy phone lines provided to us from Quest which was a mess left over from U.S. Crap for phone system and the crap for phone center for the analog number. For the digital line they use another service and it is not Qwest/U.S.Crap. So the lowest I get is 48K and the highest is 52K. Usually I get 50,600 connect. I can only get a 14.4 connect on the digital line with the 28.8 modem. That is strictly a modem compatibility issue. There are three wrods that should be trown out of the computer dictionary. They are: 1. Compatible 2. Standard 3. Universal Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "da Silva, Joe" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: RE: Master/slave jumper settings > Not really. I have an old 60M or 120M IDE drive "lying around > somewhere", that no longer has separate Master-with-slave > and Master-without-slave jumper settings. > > It has however occurred to me, that you may not be aware > of the "Cable Select" jumper setting that exists on ATAPI > drives (and possibly ATA drives - haven't checked recently) : > > Remember how IBM mutilated the Shugart floppy disk > interface, such that you jumpered all drives as "B:" and > used a mutilated ribbon cable, so that the drive at the end > responded as "A:" and the drive nearest the controller > responded as drive "B:"? Well, the ATA people (IIRC) came > up with a similar scheme, in which you set your ATA/ATAPI > drives to the "CS" jumper setting, and used a mutilated > ribbon cable to assign the Master/Slave configuration of > the two drives (in this case, the "mutilation" involved the > removal of one conductor from the cable, between the > two drive connectors). > > Joe. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrick Moran [SMTP:pmoran22 AT yahoo DOT com] > > Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2001 12:52 > > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > > Subject: Re: Master/slave settings (was prob audio CD on 2nd CD-ROM > > with NWCDEX) > > > > They must be pretty recent. I am not certain how old the CD drive is > > that I bought for my brother, but seems like it's been within the last > > two years. It is a Creative Labs which also included the PnP AWE 32 > > card. He can run all of my SB-16 software on this card as well. His CD > > did not include some of the things I got with my SB-16 for WINDOZE 3.x > > > > Pat > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "da Silva, Joe" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 5:51 PM > > Subject: RE: Master/slave settings (was prob audio CD on 2nd CD-ROM with > > NWCDEX) > > > > > > > You are partly correct. > > > > > > Older drives had three settings : > > > 1. Master drive without slave (aka. single drive). > > > 2. Master drive with slave. > > > 3. Slave drive. > > > > > > Newer drives have combined 1 & 2 by adding a few > > > more "smarts" to their firmware. > > > > > > Joe. > > > > > > ----- snip ----- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com