X-Apparently-From: Message-ID: <000c01c08f4b$7cbca1b0$e6822a40@dbcooper> From: "Patrick Moran" To: References: <002801c08f34$1db75780$38916596 AT physen> Subject: Re: VAT32, DR-DOS 7.03, Dos progs,etc. Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 01:13:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08F10.CD78AB20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08F10.CD78AB20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul Hysen=20 To: opendos AT delorie DOT com=20 Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 10:17 PM Subject: VAT32, DR-DOS 7.03, Dos progs,etc. Can anyone help. I recently upgraded to a 10 Gig drive and I found to = my disappointment the limits of FAT 16, namely a maximum of 2 Gig = partitions, and not being able to see the last 2 Gig of my drive due to = it having a limitation to the number of cylinders it can see on a hard = drive. It appears that in order to be able to get around this, I would = have to convert to FAT 32. Let me first make a few statements. First I do not use partitions = larger than 255MB for FAT 16. When you use 256MB and larger partitions = you eat up a lot of disk space from slack space. As you increase the = size of a partition you also increase the cluster size. You waste an = average of 1/2 cluster per file. If you have a cluster size of 64 = sectors (32KB) you will waste 16KB per file on average. If you have = 10,000 files on a partiton that would waste about 160MB of drive space. = It adds up very fast. That is why FAT 32 was created, to reduce the = slack space wasted as well as alloing for larger drives. Does anyone know whether DR-DOS 7.03 and NDO 3 works OK in FAT 32? If = so, what about other DOS programs? No it does not. There are drivers and utilities that can read FAT 32 = and Long File Names (LFNs) but DOS program that read or write directly = to the disk will not work and my damage a FAT 32. This does not mean = that most programs will not work, but things like Norton Utilites and = other such things that will write directly to the drive will not work. = DOS utilities like CHKDSK will not work and probably a lot of other = things will not work. There is a OEM version of the Kernel files 7.04/05 put out by Ontrack = that will work with FAT 32 much better than a FAT 32 driver and LFN = drivers and/or utilities. But this version does have some bugs. = Personally I don't trust DOS working with FAT 32 at all. WINDOZE makes = enough of a mess and crashes enough by itself as well as trashing a FAT = 32 partition, I would not add to it by allowing DOS to write to a FAT 32 = until someone determines that there is a stable option to do this. Alternatively, would there be a problem in changing the Windows 98 = partition (drive E:) to FAT 32 and leaving my DOS drives (C: & D:) in = FAT 16?=20 Absolutely not, in fact this is exactly the way I do it. WINDOZE 98 = will put it's kernel and boot files and a few other files it uses to = install and log stuff to on drive C:, it will use something like 10MB to = install and leave something like 3MB of files of drive C: WINDOZE will = boot from C: to begin with then go to E: as though it was the root = partition for WINDOZE. However, 95 has a bad habit of putting it's GRP = files in the C: root directory, so after WINDOZE gets through loading = all of it's crap, I move those files to the WINDOZE directory i.e. = E:\WINDOWS or whatever you want to call it. My computer boots from C: and I use System Commander on drive C: to = switch between operating systems. You can use DRDOS LOADER to do this. I no longer have 8x on my system = but did it this way when I had it. I use NT now and will be putting = Linux on shortly. My C: D: drive is an IDE 345MB with about 70MB as C: = and 255MB as D: both are FAT 16. The second drive is a 3GB SCSI and the = first partition is an ext2 Linux partition, the second is a 625 MB DOS = primary partition ( I use this to download and store large files. The = next is a 1GB FAT DOS primary which is also used to store large files. I = am backing those up and will use that as another Linux partition when I = install Linux. The next is an Extended partition. The first logical = drive is a 144MB FAT 16, used for backups. The second logical is a 1GB = which I use for NT and used for 9x. After I install Linux I will use = LILO as myboot manager. I'll still probably leave LOADER installed and = can set the appropriate boot partition with FDISK should an emergency = occur with LILO and still boot from DOS or NT. At One time I had DOS, = Linux and OS/2 on the system and used LILO as the boot manager and got = rid of the OS/2 boot manager. The reason I will keep the DRDOS boot = manager is because DOS FDISK plays musical chairs with the partition = table even if the only thing you do is set the boot partition to another = partition. DRDOS FDSIK from 7.03 does not seem to do this any more, But = I won't take any chances on it. Pat ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C08F10.CD78AB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul=20 Hysen
Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 = 10:17=20 PM
Subject: VAT32, DR-DOS 7.03, = Dos=20 progs,etc.

Can anyone help. I recently = upgraded to a 10=20 Gig drive and I found to my disappointment the limits of FAT 16, = namely a=20 maximum of 2 Gig partitions, and not being able to see the last 2 Gig = of my=20 drive due to it having a limitation to the number of cylinders it = can see=20 on a hard drive. It appears that in order to be able to get around = this, I=20 would have to convert to FAT 32.
 
Let me first make a few statements. First I do not use = partitions=20 larger than 255MB for FAT 16. When you use 256MB and larger partitions = you eat=20 up a lot of disk space from slack space. As you increase the size of a = partition you also increase the cluster size. You waste an average of = 1/2=20 cluster per file. If you have a cluster size of 64 sectors (32KB) you = will=20 waste 16KB per file on average. If you have 10,000 files on a partiton = that=20 would waste about 160MB of drive space. It adds up very fast. That is = why FAT=20 32 was created, to reduce the slack space wasted as well as alloing = for larger=20 drives.
 
Does anyone know whether DR-DOS = 7.03 and NDO=20 3 works OK in FAT 32? If so, what about other DOS = programs?
 
No it does not. There are drivers and utilities that can = read FAT=20 32 and Long File Names (LFNs) but DOS program that read or write = directly to=20 the disk will not work and my damage a FAT 32. This does not mean that = most=20 programs will not work, but things like Norton Utilites and other such = things=20 that will write directly to the drive will not work. DOS utilities = like CHKDSK=20 will not work and probably a lot of other things will not = work.
 
There is a OEM version of the Kernel files 7.04/05 put = out by=20 Ontrack that will work with FAT 32 much better than a FAT 32 driver = and LFN=20 drivers and/or utilities. But this version does have some bugs. = Personally I=20 don't trust DOS working with FAT 32 at all. WINDOZE makes enough of a = mess and=20 crashes enough by itself as well as trashing a FAT 32 partition, I = would not=20 add to it by allowing DOS to write to a FAT 32 until someone = determines that=20 there is a stable option to do this.
 
 Alternatively, would = there be a=20 problem in changing the Windows 98 partition (drive E:) to FAT 32 = and=20 leaving my DOS drives (C: & D:) in FAT 16?
 
Absolutely not, in fact this is exactly the way I do it. = WINDOZE=20 98 will put it's kernel and boot files and a few other files it uses = to=20 install and log stuff to on drive C:, it will use something like 10MB = to=20 install and leave something like 3MB of files of drive C: WINDOZE will = boot=20 from C: to begin with then go to E: as though it was the root = partition for=20 WINDOZE. However, 95 has a bad habit of putting it's GRP files in the = C: root=20 directory, so after WINDOZE gets through loading all of it's crap, I = move=20 those files to the WINDOZE directory i.e. E:\WINDOWS or whatever you = want to=20 call it.
 
My computer boots from C: and I use = System=20 Commander on drive C: to switch between operating = systems.
 
You can use DRDOS LOADER to do this. I no longer have 8x on my = system but=20 did it this way when I had it. I use NT now and will be putting Linux = on=20 shortly. My C: D: drive is an IDE 345MB with about 70MB as C: and = 255MB as D:=20 both are FAT 16. The second drive is a 3GB SCSI and the first = partition is an=20 ext2 Linux partition, the second is a 625 MB DOS primary partition ( I = use=20 this to download and store large files. The next is a 1GB FAT DOS = primary=20 which is also used to store large files. I am backing those up and = will use=20 that as another Linux partition when I install Linux. The next is an = Extended=20 partition. The first logical drive is a 144MB FAT 16, used for = backups. The=20 second logical is a 1GB which I use for NT and used for 9x. After I = install=20 Linux I will use LILO as myboot manager. I'll still probably leave = LOADER=20 installed and can set the appropriate boot partition with FDISK should = an=20 emergency occur with LILO and still boot from DOS or NT. At One time I = had=20 DOS, Linux and OS/2 on the system and used LILO as the boot manager = and got=20 rid of the OS/2 boot manager. The reason I will keep the DRDOS boot = manager is=20 because DOS FDISK plays musical chairs with the partition table even = if the=20 only thing you do is set the boot partition to another partition. = DRDOS FDSIK=20 from 7.03 does not seem to do this any more, But I won't take any = chances on=20 it.
 
Pat
 
 
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