Message-ID: <007a01c05e18$6f420e80$534bdcc8@alain-nb> From: "Alain" To: Subject: Re: BASIC & EMS (was: Optimizing CONFIG.SYS...) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 12:04:46 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Could people that don't know what they are talking about enquire politely? I don't like people bashing what they don't know and probably will never undestand Alain >Okay, what the hello is XMS meory? Is it ENTEDED meory or just another >stupid swap em out memory? Extended memory does not swapping you are in >memory above 1MB when you use ectended memory and you are in protected mode >when using extended memory. In Task manager, you are in protected mode and >you use EXTENDED memory. There is no swapping of memory, each task is >residing in a different area of memeory above 1MB and all you do when you >swap windows or apps is to simply jump to that area of memory. Everything is >running at the same time, it is multitasking, not the crap Gates came out >with that merely swaps things around. Check out Linux sometime and see what >is really, really TRUE MULITASKING. > >DV is not a true multi-tasker, it shares CPU time between applications >loaded, just like Gates' stupid WINDOZE does. When you use EXTENDED memory >in protected mode, you actually run several processes simutaneously. In >virtual 86 mode you actually have each process running jst as though each >one had it's own 8086 computer. It would be the same as running five tasks >on five IBM XTs. or PCs. > >So what is XMS. And what does Task manager use. I believe it uses DPMS which >is DOS Protected Mode Services. That is what I use for multi-tasking in DOS. >That is EXTENDED memory in PROTECTED MODE. I believe it is virtual 86 >protected mode that Task manager uses. There is no freeking memory swapping >with Task manager. > >Desqview, on the other hand, uses stupid time consumming memory swapping >through a tiny 64K window and uses stupid EMS to do it. Each process running >is swapped into and out of conventional memory. > >Task Manager DOES NOT do this. >Don't get me wrong, I know that peole have an extremely hard time >understanding the various memory areas and memory managers used and they can >sit down with a comprehensive book about it and read the book half a dozen >times and still not know what is going on with memory in the X86 line of >CPUs. I never will figure out why IBM chose the X86 rather than the MC68000 >family or the Z8000 family or the MOS65000 family. They chose the worst >possible CPU when they designed the PC after already having failed twice to >enter the PC market. As you can clearly see IBM has a GREAT track record!!!! > >I do not think we are talking about the same thing here. There is absolutely >no swapping of memory with Task Manager. (except of course maybe some video >memory on your video card and other such things.) > >But I would like to know just what XMS memory is. I thought it was extended >memory, period. EXTENDED, PERIOD. If it is not EXTENDED memory then we are >deffinitely not talking about the same thing. I am talking about DPMS- DOS >PROTECTED MEMORY SERVICE, which is used with Task Manager. There is no >stupid memory swapping involved. > >Try Linux sometime and you will not even mention things like EMS, XMS, DPMS, >DPMI,VCPI and a ton of other crap. Someone in this list said that DOSLinux >uses ext2 file system to work. I just checked the site out yesterday, it is >now called Loop Linux and IT DOES NOT have to use ext2fs, it still will run >on top of a 16 bit FAT or a 32 bit FAT. You can install it on your current >system and only takes about 25MB of drive space and 8 to 16 MB of swap space >if you do not have 32MB of RAM. It does need a 386 and at least 8MB RAM. >Check it out and you will find out what true multi-tasking is. It may even >be able to run on an NTFS or HPFS file system. I'll give the new one a try >one of these days. The old version I use is adequate for me at this time. >Since I am currently stuck with using IE. > >See end of message for a comment you make later in your message. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arkady V.Belousov" >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 8:57 AM >Subject: Re: BASIC & EMS (was: Optimizing CONFIG.SYS...) > > >> X-Comment-To: Patrick Moran >> >> Hi! >> >> 29-iIN-2000 19:19 pmoran22 AT yahoo DOT com (Patrick Moran) wrote to >> : >> >> >> W.R.T. EMS, I recall reading somewhere that, rather than being >> >> "Extremely inefficient", EMS is actually more efficient than XMS >> >> (when based on either real hardware or the 386's magic tricks). >> >> There were also "EMS simulator" software (286 stuff?), which >> >> had to copy data to/from the page frame, hence these were >> >> indeed inefficient - perhaps you were thinking of these? >> PM> That could be or maybe I am thinking of the way MS crap for DOS 5 did >it. >> PM> You first had to have Extended memory then that is converted to EMS >memory. >> >> Not necessary. For example, QEMM (unlike EMM386) gives access to all >> extended memory through both EMS and XMS API simultaneously. >> >> PM> However, no matter how it is done, you have a tiny little 64K window >of >> PM> memory to shove stuff through from expanded memory to conventional >memory >> PM> and conventional memory to expanded memory. When you use something >like >> >> Not necessary. You can work with data directly in EMS pages (four 16K >> pages in 64K EMS frame). >> >> PM> Desqview and you have a large program over 500k in size and have to >swap >> PM> portions of it out 64k at a time in 16k chunks. >> >> Even in this case using EMS can be faster than XMS: for EMS you use >> plain "MOV CX,8000h/REP MOVSW" eight times+eight times EMS pages >remapping, >> with XMS you use block copying with (possible) much higher overhead for >> copy. >> >> PM> XMS. When a program is run in protected mode, there is no swapping, it >> PM> operates in exntended memory as originally designed to do. In virtual >86 >> >> Hm. Don't mix XMS and protected mode operation. >> >> PM> mode you can actually have a full 8086 computers installed many times >and >> PM> each can share entended memory. This is what the DRDOS Task manger >does. It >> PM> does not use EMS like Desqview and other so-called multitaskers do via >EMS >> PM> memory. >> >> Again: don't mix memory manager itself and XMS/EMS specifications. >> >> PM> I am not positive what XMS memory is, it is not talked about in "DOS >Beyond >> PM> 640K" book. I do remember something about QEMM converting Extended >memory to >> PM> EMS then converting EMS memory back for use as Extended memory, which >is >> PM> really, really stupid. Why not just use Extended memory directly like >DPMS >> PM> does????? >> >> ? You something muddle. QEMM doesn't "convert" anything. They simply >> gives access to extended memory through EMS and/or through XMS API. > >Through is the KEYWORD! I should have said through and not converted, but it >is the same when all the ashes land. It is still crap. > >Pat > > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >