Message-ID: From: "Da Silva, Joe" To: "'opendos AT delorie DOT com'" Subject: RE: BASIC & EMS (was: Optimizing CONFIG.SYS...) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:11:10 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Thanks for the info. on M$ BASIC's origins, BTW ... I'll take a look at Darmouth's stuff, soon. As a side-note, anyone ever seen/used a Hitachi Peach computer (ca. 1980)? This had an O/S from M$, partly in machine code, partly in BASIC. Very primitive stuff - and EXTREMELY slow! For example, say you wanted to duplicate a disk - it took 20 minutes to format it, 20 minutes to copy it and, finally, another 20 minutes to verify it!!! No, I'm not kidding - that's actually how long it took!!! W.R.T. EMS, I recall reading somewhere that, rather than being "Extremely inefficient", EMS is actually more efficient than XMS (when based on either real hardware or the 386's magic tricks). There were also "EMS simulator" software (286 stuff?), which had to copy data to/from the page frame, hence these were indeed inefficient - perhaps you were thinking of these? The only real problem with EMS, is the 64K hole it makes in the UMB region (sometimes 32K, as noted by M.P.). Perhaps (I don't know how much work is involved), Matthias could add "cloaking" to EMM386 - that would help GREATLY (bug fixes are more urgent, of course)! Also, I wonder if, on machines which can use F000-F7FF for EMS, this address space can simply be added to the UMB "pool" instead? Joe. > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Moran [SMTP:pmoran22 AT yahoo DOT com] > Sent: Saturday, 25 November 2000 14:19 > To: opendos AT delorie DOT com > Subject: Re: Re: Optimizing CONFIG.SYS... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthias Paul" > To: > Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: Optimizing CONFIG.SYS... > > > > On Thu, 23 Nov 2000 Patrick Moran wrote: > > > > > > INSTALLHIGH=c:\drdos\nwcdex.exe /D:MTMIDE02 > > > > > > > > Usually it is not possible to loadhigh NWCDEX in CONFIG.SYS. > > > > A possible solution to still achieve this is to use my INSTCDEX > > > > utility available from my web-page (see footer). > > > > > > I have tried it both ways and seems to work, but it still used 7248 > bytes > > > plus environment if done this way. I use it in the AUTOEXEC file > > > and use no conventional memory. > > > > 7 Kb with DPMS, 0,9 Kb with EMS (you need to force it to use EMS by > > telling it not to use DPMS, since otherwise DPMS takes preference). > > I use ZERO low memory for NWCDEX and use DPMS. > > > > NOTE: Notice that I use the LoadHigh before I load the CDROM > extentions. > > > This will remove all of NWCDEX out of low memory. Otherwise I > have > > > 7248 bytes plus whatever environment may be use low. > > > > You are lucky to have enough space left in UMB memory when you load > > NWCDEX in AUTOEXEC.BAT. It is normally very difficult to loadhigh > > NWCDEX at such a late state, because it needs much more memory > > during initialization. So, if you have trouble to load it high, > > try to load it as soon as possible. With the help of my INSTCDEX > > utility NWCDEX can also be loaded in CONFIG.SYS (where usually more > > UMB memory is still available). > > Actually if you looked at my previous posting with mt CONFIG, AUTOEXEC and > MEM printouts, you would have noticed that I load a ton of drivers and > TSRs > in UMB and still have 67k left. Of course I don't use EMS, I hate EMS and > so > not use it unless I have a program that really REQUIRES it. I have dunped > most of those programs and found ones that use XMS. EMS is the dunbest > thing > ever invented and should have died with the XT! You try and cram megabytes > of stuff into expanded memory through a tiny 64k window on memory 8k > blocks > at a time. Extremely inefficient. Of course Intel screwed up with the > 80286 > and the EMS crap continued. If I need EMS I use QEMM in Stealth mode to > get > decent amount of memory, however on this system I now have, QEMM is too > stupid to work effeciently, I get more even with DRDOS EMS than with QEMM. > ----- snip -----