From: DH473 AT AOL DOT COM Message-ID: Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:13:15 EDT Subject: Re: DRDOS 7.03 loading XMS-driver now wastes memory To: opendos AT delorie DOT com CC: PAUL-MA AT reze-1 DOT rz DOT rwth-aachen DOT de MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.i for Windows sub 83 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id GAA23909 Reply-To: opendos AT delorie DOT com Matthias Paul wrote on Wed, 09 Jun 1999: On Mon, 07 Jun 1999 Utz Zarwell wrote: >Anyway, running >a quick test I too could reproduce the phenomenon on an AMD486DX40 >(SIS 461 chipset, VESA-Local bus, AMI-BIOS 1993 I5 R1.3, 20 Mb RAM) >running DR-DOS 7.03 and temporarily loading MS-DOS 6.22 HIMEM.SYS... >So, it appears not to be CPU or chipset specific at all. Agree. Others on the list say similar. I showed this with 2 different systems already. >IMHO parts of your configuration are rather unusual. >Still, a number of comments and questions might help to better >clarify your setup in general: There is no need to do so. :-) Most of the testing of the _abnormality_ was done before and without ALL suspicious _drivers_ of course. The XMS behavior was shown with both systems regardless of the customized ( :-) ) configurations. The following cutting only showed the state _before_ by using a stable all days config on the laptop with the UMC chipset. satisfying your curiosity.. >>ok, at first for DR-OpenDOS 7.02 with PC DOS 7 HIMEM.SYS >>[...] >>DEVICE=C:\START\DOA20.EXE /C /D /Q >>DEVICE=C:\START\UEBDA.SYS /S=4C /F > >Are these self-written drivers for A20 control and moving the >Extended BIOS data area? Selfwritten? Hhm, .. aahhmm, ... indeed. But it doesn´t touch our problem. >>DEVICE=C:\START\HIMEM.SYS /V /FASTA20 >>DEVICE=C:\DOS\DPMS.EXE > >Is this the PC DOS DPMS driver? It has an unusual memory footprint of >1568 bytes quite similar to very old Novell DPMS drivers, which also >found their way into PC DOS due to Stacker. Use the DR-DOS 7.02+ DPMS >driver instead, it should have a smaller footprint of only 944 byte >on your machine. ver 1.44 Caldera (1997). I have to say I don´t know exactly the version of DR-DOS 7.02+ DMPS anymore. Doesn´t matter anyhow for the subject. But the thing with the different footprint depends on whether DPMS is running under EMM386 (DPMI/VCPI) or XMS. >Since you can't use VLADIVAR multitasking without >EMM386, you could also try to use Helix's/Network Associates' CLOAKING >driver instead of DPMS, also provides a "Cloaked DPMS server" (this >is undocumented) at a (high loadable) memory footprint of ca. 1 Kb. >CLOAKING 2.01 (1994) shipped for example with Logitech MouseWare 6.50 >and 6.60, and even current issues of MouseWare 8.2x utilize it to run >the mouse driver in Protected Mode, thereby reducing the visible >mouse driver footprint downto ca. 1 Kb (instead of 27 Kb otherwise). >This even outperforms CTMOUSE/DRMOUSE... Where to get? :-) And how save is the use of CLOAKING? >>DEVICE=C:\START\UKEY.SYS /DATEI=C:\START\LEBOOK.BIN >Vobis LeBook? Is this a laptop keyboard driver, or a key stuffing >tool? It has an invalid device driver name "aeoeueAEOEUE(" (maybe to save >some bytes), but on the other hand this should not cause any problems. Vobis LeBook. (None laptop) keyboard driver. Doesn´t cause probs. >But where does the other block driver come from? >24B:0000 E: B0h, 176 DEVICE = installed device > >I can't find a line loading something like DRIVER.SYS or another RAM >disk... Or is this a result of DOA20.EXE?!? Yeah, the boy has found one big point ! ;-) But you explained it yourself already some lines before. And I wonder why you did not hit the tender spot? Haven´t you seen the _memory hole_ between 773:0h and 1124:0h ? :-)) just kidding. STACKER But before hitting me - it is only installed on the laptop! I know it is definitely not a good idea, but there was no chance to avoid it. So its not the prob. >Since your memory configuration is rather modular, it might be >interesting to see what happens after removing the bus master driver >and XBDA relocator. Even if they worked, they could cause some fuzz... Nothing else. When testing/installing I avoid them. >Your dummy driver has proven to be quite useful here. >You should try a few more configurations between /SIZE=4000..8000 >to see how HIMEM.SYS strikes back when DUMMYDRV.SYS reaches >700:0000..A00:0000. > >Do similar things also happen when HIMEM.SYS is loaded above >1000:0000 (e.g. by loading multiple DUMMYDRV.SYS), for example >placing HIMEM.SYS start in between 13xx:0000..1Axx:0000? >Seems like HIMEM.SYS tries to ensure that some part of it is loaded >at a fixed offset short before A9A. For what reason I don't know. It shrinks to 3168 By until somewhere at 09D0:0, then it keeps that size. Following cutting from mem/b with various DUMMYDRV sizes. +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 4000h, 16.384 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 658:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 4410h, 17.424 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +1000 XMS -1000 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 5000h, 20.480 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 758:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 3410h, 13.328 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +1000 XMS -1000 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 6000h, 24.576 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 858:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 2410h, 9.232 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +1000 XMS -1000 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7000h, 28.672 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 958:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 1410h, 5.136 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +400 XMS -400 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B1F0h, 111.088 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7400h, 29.696 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 998:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ 1010h, 4.112 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A9A:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3363:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C5D0h, 443.856 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +400 XMS -400 +50 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B240h, 111.168 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7800h, 30.720 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 9D8:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A9F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3368:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C580h, 443.776 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +200 XMS 00 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B440h, 111.680 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7A00h, 31.232 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 9F8:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ ABF:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3388:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C380h, 443.264 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +200 XMS 00 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1B640h, 112.192 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 7C00h, 31.744 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A18:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ ADF:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 33A8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6C180h, 442.752 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +400 XMS 00 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1BA40h, 113.216 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 8000h, 32.768 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A58:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ B1F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 33E8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6BD80h, 441.728 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +400 XMS 00 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1BE40h, 114.240 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 8400h, 33.792 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ A98:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ B5F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3428:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6B980h, 440.704 ¦ FREE ¦ Dummy +400 XMS 00 +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1C240h, 115.264 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ 8800h, 34.816 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ AD8:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ B9F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 3468:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 6B580h, 439.680 ¦ FREE ¦ +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 1FA40h, 129.600 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ C000h, 49.152 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ E58:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ F1F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 37E8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 67D80h, 425.344 ¦ FREE ¦ +- Address --- Name ----- Size ------------- Type ----------------------------+ ¦ 23C:0000 ¦ DOS ¦ 21A40h, 137.792 ¦ System ¦ ¦ 24B:0000 ¦ E: ¦ B0h, 176 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 257:0000 ¦ DUMDRV & ¦ E000h, 57.344 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 1058:0000 ¦ XMSXXXX0 ¦ C60h, 3.168 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 111F:0000 ¦ äöüÄÖÜ(' ¦ 190h, 400 ¦ DEVICE = installed device driver ¦ ¦ 39E8:0000 ¦ -------- ¦ 65D80h, 417.152 ¦ FREE ¦ >On my system a DEBUG dump showed that the memory block occupied by >HIMEM.SYS still contains most parts of the installer, although there >are some large areas of 00h and FFh. Same with yours? Could it be, >that for some reason HIMEM.SYS has problems to run within Low Memory >(first 64 Kb) due to some obscure A20 or DMA problem??? Although >this does not appear to be hardware specific, any changes after >fiddling with CMOS SETUP settings for A20 or chipset setup? Not worth testing it, because at least 4 different machines showed that behavior. Same over 64K. >Does the following reveal anything on your machine: > INSTALL=c:\drdos\mem.exe /AP > DEVICE=c:\pcdos\himem.sys > INSTALL=c:\drdos\mem.exe /AP No. >Unfortunately I don't have the time to track this down myself, but >if this problem does occur with DR-DOS 7.03 (01/1999) and did not >occur with DR-OpenDOS 7.02 (12/1997), what about DR-DOS 7.02 (02/1998) >and all of its various updates over 1998? After isolating the latest >working kernel for this setup, we should step by step replace >IBMDOS.COM by newer ones until the problem occurs or we use the >7.03 BDOS. Then same with IBMBIO.COM. >With this info, I might be able to isolate the kernel patch that >apparently causes this behaviour and look for a fix. That is definitely a good idea to get when it was introduced. But unfortunately I don´t have all those versions. >>Chipset made by UMC: UM8891N (Notebook), UM8886N EIDE/ISA bridge >>If anyone out there could provide me any good info/datasheet/pointer >>about that particular chipset (programming) really I would be happy >>to spent that time... ;-) >That's an offer!!! OK people, let's search for some data sheets >(I couldn't find any of the UMC chips in INTER60, but what's the >Intel Batman chipset's code number again?)... Anyone checked >UMC's server already? Intel Batman is a Mercury chipset rev 3. That one I can handle. UMC info is much harder to obtain. The offer remains under the condition that I get the relevant info about the chipset and that it is possible. Regards, Utz