Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 15:13:29 +1300 From: physmsa AT cantua DOT canterbury DOT ac DOT nz (Mr M S Aitchison) Subject: Re: Communication between '95 & OD7.02b and RAM CRAM To: opendos-support AT delorie DOT com Message-id: <199711210213.PAA12398@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz> Precedence: bulk Blade the Badger wrote... > Is it necessary to remove the win 95 network support first? You cannot have two drivers controlling the same card, but you can have a single driver for the card then "shims" - layers that go through (say) Netware's ODI to make it act like a MS network layer is underneath, and vica versa. Having netware already installed when you install Win95 helps (it is messy, but nwclient can be kept). Win95 supports Netware (sort of) but not personal netware (can be made too, I'm told, with difficulty I think). You can get Win95 to act as a Netware server for printers etc and have Personal Netware act as a client (Personal netware is all that the Netware 2/3/4 clients are plus more). > A second Point is I recently noticed that I was loosing massive amounts > of ram to "DOS" when viewing mem/a under OD7.02 somewhere in the > vicinity of 230k. Is this normal ? after loading network drivers etc > etc. I end up with about 450k left to run programs so I've taken to > running the network under msdos 7 (ERK) but at least I CAN run programs. Most DOSes take about 40Kb for what is obviously the operating system, plus more for things that aren't so obviously the operating system but are still prety essential (e.g. BUFFERS, device drivers). Once you add networking the memory use increases a huge amount (about 100Kb or more is likely) but with luck most of that can be loaded into upper memory. DPMS is supposed to help (doesn't much for networking in my experience; good for CDROMs though). Be aware that sometimes you get holes in memory too small to be filled, so loading some drivers early might prevent others loading high and so putting (say) a 20Kb module in a 70Kb upper memory area, forcing a latter 56Kb one to load below 640K. For what it is worth, here is part of one of my setups' MEM/A output (running under DOSEMU makes it a little a-typical, but cutting and pasting is convenient!). It isn't optimal, but it shows how there is 32,832 bytes left in one chunk in upper memory (at D7FC) and VLM is using a 56,400 byte area at 05D1 which might have loaded high if LSL or MSCDEX weren't taking so much of the area between C000 and E000.... .- Address -+- Name ---+- Size -----------+- Type ----------------------------. | 0:0000 | -------- | A0000h, 655,360 | ------------- RAM --------------- | }-----------+----------+------------------+-----------------------------------{ | 0:0000 | -------- | 400h, 1,024 | Interrupt vectors | | 40:0000 | -------- | 100h, 256 | ROM BIOS data area | | 50:0000 | DOS | 200h, 512 | DOS data area | | 70:0000 | BIOS | 900h, 2,304 | Device drivers | | 70:0023 | CON | | System device driver | | 70:0035 | AUX | | System device driver | | 70:0047 | PRN | | System device driver | | 70:0059 | CLOCK$ | | System device driver | | 70:006B | COM1 | | System device driver | | 70:007D | COM2 | | System device driver | | 70:008F | COM3 | | System device driver | | 70:00A1 | COM4 | | System device driver | | 70:00C7 | LPT1 | | System device driver | | 70:00D9 | LPT2 | | System device driver | | 70:00EB | LPT3 | | System device driver | | 70:016E | A:-E: | | System device driver | | 100:0000 | DOS | 13C0h, 5,056 | System | | 100:0048 | NUL | | System device driver | | 100:00CC | DOS | 10Fh, 271 | HANDLES=, FCBS= 5 total blocks | | 23C:0000 | DOS | 1160h, 4,448 | System | | 23E:0000 | EMMXXXX0 | F0h, 240 | DEVICE = installed device driver | | 24E:0000 | MSCD0001 | 2C0h, 704 | DEVICE = installed device driver | | 27B:0000 | DOS | A2Bh, 2,603 | HANDLES=, FCBS= 49 total blocks | | 352:0000 | COMMAND | 1F0h, 496 | Program | | 371:0000 | COMMAND | 330h, 816 | Environment | | 3A4:0000 | MEM | 170h, 368 | Environment | | 3BB:0000 | -------- | 10h, 16 | FREE | | 3BC:0000 | PDETHER | B70h, 2,928 | Program | | 473:0000 | VLM | 15E0h, 5,600 | Program | | 5D1:0000 | VLM | DC50h, 56,400 | Data | | 1396:0000 | MEM | 15C00h, 89,088 | Program | | 2956:0000 | -------- | 76A90h, 486,032 | FREE | | 9FFF:0000 | DOS | 20010h, 131,088 | System | }-----------+----------+------------------+-----------------------------------{ | C000:0000 | DOS | D20h, 3,360 | System | | C0D2:0000 | COMMAND | 1840h, 6,208 | Data | | C256:0000 | -------- | E0h, 224 | FREE | | 2956:0000 | -------- | 76A90h, 486,032 | FREE | | 9FFF:0000 | DOS | 20010h, 131,088 | System | }-----------+----------+------------------+-----------------------------------{ | C000:0000 | DOS | D20h, 3,360 | System | | C0D2:0000 | COMMAND | 1840h, 6,208 | Data | | C256:0000 | -------- | E0h, 224 | FREE | | C264:0000 | ANSI | A20h, 2,592 | Program | | C306:0000 | -------- | 120h, 288 | FREE | | C318:0000 | MSCDEX | 7DB0h, 32,176 | Program | | CAF3:0000 | -------- | 180h, 384 | FREE | | CB0B:0000 | LSL | 5F90h, 24,464 | Program | | D104:0000 | IPXODI | 40C0h, 16,576 | Program | | D510:0000 | VLM | 2EC0h, 11,968 | Data | | D7FC:0000 | -------- | 8040h, 32,832 | FREE | }-----------+----------+------------------+-----------------------------------{ | E000:0000 | EMS | 10000h, 65,536 | ---------- EMS memory ----------- | }-----------+----------+------------------+-----------------------------------{ | FFFF:00E0 | -------- | 15C0h, 5,568 | FREE | | FFFF:9710 | -------- | 110h, 272 | FREE | | FFFF:9820 | DOS | 2DB8h, 11,704 | BUFFERS= 22 disk buffers | | FFFF:C5D8 | -------- | 88Ah, 2,186 | FREE | | FFFF:CE62 | SHARE | 115Eh, 4,446 | Program | `-----------`----------`------------------`-----------------------------------' .--------------------------------------------------------------------------. | |<------------------- Conventional memory ---------------------> | | 0h 10000h 20000h 30000h 40000h 50000h 60000h 70000h | | 0K 64K 128K 192K 256K 320K 384K 448K | | }-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+------- | | &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& | | &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&................................########%%%%%%%% | | +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+------{ | | 512K 576K 640K 704K 768K 832K 896K 960K 1MB | | 80000h 90000h A0000h B0000h C0000h D0000h E0000h F0000h 100000h | | >-------------->|<-------------- Upper memory ---------------->| | `--------------------------------------------------------------------------' Key: &=RAM %=ROM :=Shadow ROM #=EMS . Memory Type ------+-- Total Bytes ( Kbytes ) -+--- Available For Programs -. | | | | | Conventional | 655,360 ( 640K ) | 575,504 ( 562K ) | | Upper | 131,072 ( 128K ) | 33,728 ( 33K ) | | High | 65,520 ( 64K ) | 8,026 ( 8K ) | | Extended | 4,194,304 ( 4,096K ) | 4,194,304 ( 4,096K ) | | Extended via XMS | -------- | 4,106,240 ( 4,010K ) | | EMS | 2,097,152 ( 2,048K ) | 2,097,152 ( 2,048K ) | }-------------------`----------------------------`----------------------------{ | Largest executable program: 575,104 ( 562K ) | | Total Free DOS memory: 609,232 ( 595K ) | `-----------------------------------------------------------------------------' ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Aitchison, \_ Phone: +64 3 364-2947 home 337-1225 Dept of Physics & Astronomy,