X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1697001915; x=1697606715; darn=delorie.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=n77FwV4Bx0qk/Uwdp1wlokzWHoVQEdTXShOa7G3bTNM=; b=V2DpwhNGprIxKRFrwn6V0yQ7p/tY+vz7V0RE4Tz0jJiYVT9xhVjTU5tkjxktEPKEkg KRPNRfOHHKLQosgmSQFjo81TE/8EZm331EcBtNA12cMAwHzvzr224oiPdWNPFivEAufB hjXi7AoAU1lNuQKwo7VTcUmX0zGYXn/fPtFwGT2T03u0E26ifdcAq1qgttp408r1I3pU gCFNslgIuZ7mc7uvzEGohV9iEdnWvIVTDllCzvMizVCYBQ5ubWwIwKmqbkI3X4+5ZPuZ H1yVxIyrBayeHQDgLacBIs40SxZo4ZpCswT4g/DigqWkUFSzh9wOpn9DTW1bxMw7mB1g F13Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1697001915; x=1697606715; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=n77FwV4Bx0qk/Uwdp1wlokzWHoVQEdTXShOa7G3bTNM=; b=rX6LD7iVQfiKK6srOTo19RRJbGmth4ozQjkfnF0XPjobZ94dGDztccIlq1cPYRNg8I 9agpenYdQPB2K897+siBxaCYhZB9ZIYgZXxkuqv8Qr0Tji/qUMkDHBcQg/7RzYx5PgfG 9CAuu+sheZuJGrtZHNxEG1LpdH5NGwhOPGTO2yHe1lEPjzcReO+Q/vAvrtXoyJGC1Q8u DuhLd3pGLkd7i3WFtuzpoayQAqZE7UbqyImHqhkxGyUqRZd9n02vc537dt/hA88causb CWRQbf5Sc1y+kwPLOzNlSUF9VCx3wbBLaLnYWPggynBmDorSJL4cYw+teXsFBtsWcJ6N 9Dcw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzK6bGayyss1YbjqrvvrX5+Q4BdIACQvdrJOUIZsTfCZyKwyQD5 OSKLfvB1uzeRhDsNoJH7nfLOSzFG/NPG2BKHi3r6ba4IsGI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEGxA6tT0tWuVn3STJ5R4CBP3FV+zI15ULPVYiNhL0a0utZSH5ArVMyBR7TP30S9k6+QWMIz/FN9uFWcLYy8MA= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:c10c:0:b0:79f:97b6:76de with SMTP id v12-20020a5ec10c000000b0079f97b676demr23200657iol.3.1697001914995; Tue, 10 Oct 2023 22:25:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202310100335 DOT 39A3Zn6W3486400 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com> In-Reply-To: <202310100335.39A3Zn6W3486400@envy.delorie.com> From: "Erich Heinzle (a1039181 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 15:55:02 +1030 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] is geda dead yet? To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id 39B5PG7n012261 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com There has been very active development going on in pcb-rnd and allied projects over recent years. I tend to think of pcb-rnd as gEDA PCB on steroids. pcb-rnd and associated projects have regular feature, bugfix and release cycles. Many of the deficiencies in the data model and capabilities of gEDA PCB have been addressed in pcb-rnd, for example: - more robust build infrastructure, allowing it to be built on a wider variety of architectures and older systems - a centralised HID supporting lesstif, gtk2 +/- GL, gtk4 +/- GL, and in due course, SDL GUI backends - multiple file format support, including gEDA PCB layouts kicad legacy kicad s-expression kicad libs eagle binary eagle XML eagle libs altium board protel autotrax file as component library wget component library BXL library - multiple schematic format support, including lepton, gschem, eeschema, tinycad, altium, and sch-rnd, and associated netlist formats - polygons and text in footprints - padstacks, including slot support, plated and non plated - multiple font support, with up to 8 in one layout - fonts support polygon and arc elements, and truetype/opentype glyphs can be imported into a font - seamless external autorouter support, using either standalone freerouting or freerouting-cli, plus infrastructure for other routers, and of course specctra DSN export/import - openscad export, with models included for all the default library components - parametric footprints supported directly from the library browsing dialogue - support for scripting within pcb-rnd using multiple languages - CAM export, allowing user defined exports of gerber and excellon outputs with customised postfix naming, stackups, etc - flexible board layer stackups, which includes editable positive and negative soldermask layers, fab layers, and stencil layers, which integrate with the padstack support. - back-annotation (to sch-rnd), and in theory to lepton/gschem, with patching - importing layout data within an existing layout The standalone librnd library takes care of the HID support, and solves the problem of ageing gtk2 dependencies, not just for pcb-rnd, but also for camv-rnd, the associated gerber/excellon/gcode viewer, which can properly display the slotted padstacks generated by pcb-rnd. Similarly, moving forwards, the associated schematic editor sch-rnd uses the same librnd library, leveraging the HID support for gtk4, and also supports back annotation from pcb-rnd. The main difference between gEDA PCB and pcb-rnd is slightly different keyboard shortcut mapping to accommodate all of the additional features, but time spent getting used to this pays off as the same keyboard mappings apply in sch-rnd and camv-rnd. I routinely do PCB development using the sch-rnd/pcb-rnd/camv-rnd toolchain on 13 year old atom processor netbooks, and only resort to an i5 laptop when I need to run openscad to display board exports, as openscad refuses to run on the ancient GL version. Importantly, there are no guile or python dependencies with the sch-rnd/pcb-rnd/camv-rnd toolchain, and debian includes pcb-rnd packages, providing some certainty for users moving forwards. Incidentally, edakrill, the footprint/symbol/script repository for the sch-rnd/pcb-rnd/camv-rnd toolchain already includes gedasymbols content, which can be browsed in the footprint library dialogue if wget support is configured. My translate2geda utility remains popular, but the data model in gEDA PCB limits the fidelity of conversions, particularly with regards to polygons in footprints, text in footprints, and layers supported. The functionality of translate2geda is pretty much baked into pcb-rnd. Regards, Erich On Tue, Oct 10, 2023 at 2:14 PM DJ Delorie wrote: > > > No significant commits in years. > > No releases in years. > > Subprojects moving away, or forking. > > Mailing lists are oddly quiet. > > Risks are arising about dependencies on obsolete toolkits. > > Nobody seems interested in maintaining it any more. > > I'm contemplating pulling the plug on the 12 year old server and > calling it a day. > > Anyone want to argue otherwise? ;-) > > (and if you do, you'll likely end up owning it ;) > > DJ