X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 03:02:29 +0100 From: Kai-Martin Knaak To: Subject: [geda-user] Fw: [geda-help] How to get element outline off-board Message-ID: <20210308030229.4936b11f@swips.iqo.uni-hannover.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.8 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Sig_/a3OS9dYAPyrm99aKoNBpxhC"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jFfyCsFHXVnpe8hVXkEvyJkLPTaTNP2uaQCwIMtL2qNJAYbi2Gs eO8dRRjvqrZybWY/kWzb993tdE3toialqAYv/GIIUkQPfyOR2k4MycLmtuTfo1RxPdSrbJ6 fXtqRl33NYCDUgoDWqy4JNIC8qu3yGLgrYwWRoipE/K6NgdWaMdlKvmcoQC45A3ZpBngYY7 uefLR+J+fAahivVu5whuw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:15z82iLCBQY=:9wBWieBSeMeo6S7QeVe8Xs ty80OWakvzBqOLWk6HnOdz5QRTNAl+0DH69abbb6CuOBvthI3UAX1FpGtN1DUcaE3LPmxJZho ZDh5+BmIl1McgcrUQHGyUWdfC6HFzaQDemipMzDNBptJQsdIRn74FDKrRsZSLM+C2CZ405m7n I5DVzdcLQy4vfn/cMO+XsA6RyYMTz4jcZ46wrdYtMu9tWzh6h4fqzFqNZPlnl+ggz8EX+506k +VawNTrDXqAzoNGbDl1IiLE6N9GEBTJb5UHJafeJSj/64yL27lfYupiOCQQeZJUpJ3TOQX6DA zv2yLib3T2jOtvDtd/PPFXVsF/VzbjrSXMzpqq//0A7UeSPnuAH9DalJCXoJ4MYUCPGgMzSUx LCmjGAON5j05sotD4s9mdhazrkANPZAUFnf+f5nJZ5P8Vx/pG55cpLku2SnxKS3Ueh5T788yW nCn3+fJMEQ== Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com --Sig_/a3OS9dYAPyrm99aKoNBpxhC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Roland Lutz schrieb am 25. February 2021: > On Thu, 25 Feb 2021, Torben Friis (friistf AT gmail DOT com) [via=20 > geda-help AT delorie DOT com] wrote: =20 > > I have not been using the design software for some time. I have used=20 > > gEDA and lately Lepton/Lepton-cli(?). Now I am confused - should I > > use gEDA or Lepton/Lepton-cli? =20 >=20 > I'll let the gEDA/gaf 1.10 changelog speak for itself: > http://git.geda-project.org/geda-gaf/tree/NEWS#n107 =20 This being a geda mailing list, a little context may be appropriate. Version 1.10 is the first release since Roland effectively picked up the torch to lead the gEDA/gaf development.=20 =3D=3D Improved gschem GUI In 1.10 the gschem GUI got a major overhaul. The most obvious change is probably the ability of dialogues to "dock" to the sides of the main window. You still can configure the GUI for the traditional pop-up window style. However, there is a reason why most high profile design applications have switched to some kind of docked interface. =20 The action items of gschem got reorganized in the menus. No worries, all the accel keys stayed the same.=20 There are a couple of more subtle but still influential changes: =20 * A double click on a sub circuit symbol brings you directly to the circuit.=20 * The symbol selection dialogue now deals gracefully with nested folders. Previous versions of geda would assume only two layers. * Negative coordinates are accessible in the gschem GUI now. You can now set the origin to wherever you prefer your mouse to handle the symbol. + many more. See the changelog for the details. =3D=3D Python for the back office The most sweeping change since geda 1.8 refers to the back office. Roland converted and essentially rewrote all the back-ends from scheme to python. This is part of an effort to make geda not depend on guile. The scheme dialect guile is a viable choice for an interpreted language from a purely technical point of view. However, there is a glaring issue that might be described as "social". Scheme and guile even more so lacks popular adoption. Geda with its very niche topic and rather small user base is one of the largest open source projects to actually use guile. Only few users and even less potential developers are experienced scheme users. In addition, the guile biotope tends to treat windows as an afterthought. So guile 2.0 has not been available on MS Windows for many years after guile 1.8 was declared obsolete. Consequently, there has been no natively compiled windows version of geda since 2013. The lack of a MS Windows version of geda certainly impacted adoption of geda a lot - in particular in the maker scene. If you were to start an open hardware project, would you use an EDA suite that essentially runs on linux only? Or would you choose an alternative suite that is readily available on the OS that most of your friends are already familiar with? Over time, this effect accelerates itself. Everybody tends to use what everybody uses. Unfortunately, this left geda in the dark. Just about every high profile open hardware project uses kicad these days. This fuelled the controversy that led to the fork of geda. Is an infrastructure based on scheme a valuable asset that just needs some polishing? Or is guile an obstacle that needs to be removed to facilitate long time survival of geda as a viable suite? The developers who forked geda into lepton-eda firmly believe in the former. While the main line of geda development works on the latter approach.=20 TL;DR:=20 Use lepton-eda if you like scheme and enjoy hacking guile scripts to adopt the suite to your special needs. Stay with geda if you are more into python and would like to benefit from the recent improvements of the gschem GUI. ---<)kaimartin(>--- PS: CC to geda-user because this involves a more general aspect of geda. --=20 Kai-Martin Knaak Email: kmk AT familieknaak DOT de =C3=96ffentlicher PGP-Schl=C3=BCssel: https://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=3Dindex&search=3D0x7B0F9882 --Sig_/a3OS9dYAPyrm99aKoNBpxhC Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEyAypwA/y2l/nFU8PwTqkzHsPmIIFAmBFhbUACgkQwTqkzHsP mIKg8w/8DyIP2R02iTC710xbtHoCXNyb5dFj8r2n/6D77YSQs4BMB7kUPTAkIPfi djv6zEbcxd2JNzCU4WTq8ZuxxnnG2UK8v/4EDvLHkd3kvxYXcgPUL9y8YCY+eFVa JfjZC9dFePeVsbCcsQn/nxyOp7J/vfPFLEb7eRf0UDiCqnxoNmFasRlgLaD80WxX RLqgB5SPq2mhPVjX6fzt6RaPbRM51ozdKmiJDuAnNT0AKGBkmT9ltZ0DtBiinaNT mdh7z4nVmQB5Nw+VmwU30cLoXIvWo0T9H80CJDasz7S39nDD4Owp9JRrG3ZQylO6 OTaOdx9mJe1cYqw7xYK5EdWK7eTG9G8s44QLyuQS1046mj41tOhHYH/QwjfHiPHl BtuY1E9rGEGwRLBeVju/XO320UAjd4j+mQ7rVwYoiZkivyX3flnsWAMTfN90gj/7 0gY4Y92ImPq6cirww2zcFUVhYOuQPvV2S+Z5nX+B6jQhkJh3LRg8ziafixWIIPom sFW4Jm6nSX1gIF3Z9j792I/ceMEjFIyoHkBA+BMl8acLT1Bw1ZvzlXGplgeK7/PO 0bjJ/AMQI42WLGYzeL36r/wLwRUUJTaJlW7VNghj7sFK0tfHLNqEWMUL2bcydx93 p3RVRcRbwFxpHkAfD6ZwifhJW1geUt36GTVbRpHDbShxP2xGV+A= =eEIo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/a3OS9dYAPyrm99aKoNBpxhC--