X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h=
	reply-to:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version
	:in-reply-to:content-type; s=fm2; bh=UIuoRGcam87EK8DMTrstKIGLygL
	YL/Zm/5kJDdPrxWw=; b=FIY3RNZvw6S6Ug0O2+HtCWPIsGdK91KCQT3HapYr247
	VNPqx8PSvWsfdP6rIz/Kj1L+MEa0tV2deoCR8a7tLNNuD+mt7Qq9cWtSUKl1xY9k
	3GJLfpwXADtdNueOCwBTzVJp0mC7Hub+S/6huBM8w1SaFSP8gJWaKLXmWJ0qX2tx
	V0W8X00Os0a3yeFqNj7il7ntBMDjP3JWJUOlqyBrwHJVukRVJV01LBN+cTLSNDVX
	a1qXacLAZxhNKarcoZja24LRmaVuzccLQFaJ9cXpBjKWs5TWvHin9bHwjdWe45Rg
	6mQEqzV2vVpg+xdaJuB/sfz9YfOPCl74ZyQp1wFBjCA==
X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
	messagingengine.com; h=content-type:date:from:in-reply-to
	:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:to
	:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=
	fm2; bh=UIuoRGcam87EK8DMTrstKIGLygLYL/Zm/5kJDdPrxWw=; b=5i1wMwPe
	v48YJStpPy35o3pesljPIuLGMhrhnQRnG9dLj4sjd8w0vRBquzBUTIaR+By6MYPR
	OlUz0LWZ4BkcoXtuWN0HnBaLjsKuVcvebsfXGrSGtzBcVehm9IgJ3EgDjAdA6c9I
	SaCidKJKCHWRRkpGfxB0DYCztryWqIAtI6FwT4xeylsigPd9LSjN81FqiNvtKY60
	a0QHScwmW4nBTTuXPpE3FL+2AtAJLBp4Mv0VqIAshidA7UXGLIWtjfzqSr/LUEqo
	8VC3KeFlKWVtzYEIJ1F0QR+/ZzvRHvf+OtWPFgde8R9NF1YrRHjtUuEjTiaYW9aY
	8kGWY17a0qbr7A==
X-ME-Sender: <xms:M1xfXLL9Q7WoqqCw0Atv6QBdV5Ws6yYJgIo_jCPq4lu7G9C_4_KUNQ>
X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedtledrleehgddthecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf
    curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfhuthenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedt
    tdenucenucfjughrpehruffvfhfhkffffgggjggtsegrtderredtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpe
    fiihhrvhhinhcujfgvrhhruceoghhhvghrrhhlsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrtghomheqnecu
    kfhppedutdekrddvudehrdduleehrddvtdehnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe
    hghhgvrhhrlhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd
X-ME-Proxy: <xmx:M1xfXDbmHSEIN2GhMkI6EELCWzbwIXcBIyM-LQK82qWnMt-9uvaAZQ>
    <xmx:M1xfXOt1AsY7S9UGhB-A4ykRw7dWFT7XewJAtAy-I7QNs-7li1uFBA>
    <xmx:M1xfXItgoBJ231UjHQbCkNtT9DSQKXaxmh4b-vAApGdlCzHeHeLpJQ>
    <xmx:M1xfXLhupPqHNNY-7bEwuqSeIgBmUQIpOMuWTCAboF3vkBDM8axSBg>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Problem changing hole size.
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
References: <fa4c9d29-3336-918f-c150-bfa2b1c3c776 AT fastmail DOT com>
 <CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
From: "Girvin Herr (gherrl AT fastmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
Message-ID: <a3344f9f-09c6-8397-9c8e-9bfe87cc963c@fastmail.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2019 15:04:42 -0800
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
 Thunderbird/60.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="------------5ECE2EA5A9F762F5F8EAA376"
Content-Language: en-US
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com
Precedence: bulk

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------5ECE2EA5A9F762F5F8EAA376
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Chad,

Thanks for your response. See my comments below.

Another option would be to hand edit the ASCII pcb file. But I prefer 
not to do that, since it is error-prone. I could do more damage than good.

Another option would be to make one hole then Ctrl-c it and copy it to 
the other corners of the board. That works, but I think I will go with 
your #2 and Ctrl-h them. Yes, that worked fine. Now I have to remember 
to restore the default via parameters...

Thanks again. You are always helpful.
Girvin


On 2/9/19 1:37 PM, Chad Parker (parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com) [via 
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
> Hi Girvin-
>
> Usually "Mode1" is like, the windows key, or the command key on a mac, 
> I believe.
I tried the "windows" key but it did nothing on my Linux system.
>
> There should be newer versions of the pcb manual available, if you're 
> using a more recent version of pcb, you should probably reference the 
> associated manual.
I will have to look for this.
>
> You have a couple of different ways you can deal with this:
>
> 1. Select the via, then under the Select menu, there is an option to 
> "change drilling hole of selected objects", and select vias +10 mils. 
> This will work for holes too (they're really still vias under the hood).
This works, but it is tedious. I need a 0.187" hole. That's a lot of 
clicking for +5-mil increments. It would be nice to see some sort of 
element parameters edit feature, which brings up all the attributes of 
an element for editing, rather than one attribute at a time. There are 
many attributes that do not seem to have the ability to be changed in 
PCB. Circles come to mind. Making circles out of 90-degree arcs is 
tedious. I had a circle in an element that I needed to change the 
diameter of. I could not find a menu option allowing me to change it and 
recreating it from arcs did not seem to be a good way to do it. I ended 
up hand editing the element file, changing the circle height and width. 
That worked, but...
>
> 2. Modify a route style to create a via with a hole the size you want, 
> place it, and then set the hole flag.
That is probably my best way to do what I want at this time.
>
> 3. According to Info > Key Bindings, you should be able to hit <Alt-S> 
> to increase the drill hole size by 5 mils, however, when I try this, 
> the Alt gets captured and interpreted as a request to open a menu by 
> GTK. <Shift-Alt-S> still works to make it smaller by 5 mils. This is 
> something we need to fix.

Well, that makes perfect sense. Since there is a menu called "Settings", 
it would make sense that Alt-s would bring up that menu. That is 
standard window functionality. Alt-alpha should be avoided.

> 4. Create a "footprint"/element with the hole you want, and load it. 
> There may already be some standard sized mounting hole footprints in 
> the library (if there aren't, there should be).
>
I will have to look into this. It is a good idea. If I can find 
clearance hole elements for standard screw sizes, say #2... #10, I could 
use them for most projects. If I can't find what I want, I will make some.
> Thanks,
> --Chad
>
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:18 PM Girvin Herr (gherrl AT fastmail DOT com 
> <mailto:gherrl AT fastmail DOT com>) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com 
> <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com 
> <mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com>> wrote:
>
>     Greetings,
>
>     I am trying to create a mounting hole in my PCB design using PCB
>     4.1.3.
>     I first created a via, then used Ctrl-h to change it to a hole. That
>     seems to have worked. Now I am trying to enlarge the hole for a
>     mounting
>     screw. The manual I have (Pcb-20110918 by Harry Eaton), page 21,
>     Para.
>     3.5.6 Vias, states to use "Mode1<key>v" to enlarge the hole.
>     However, I
>     do not see where "Mode1" is defined and permutations of Alt-v, Esc-v,
>     Ctrl-v, etc do not create the correct results (enlarging the hole
>     size
>     on-screen). Can someone tell me what "Mode1" is or describe how I can
>     change the hole size of an existing via?
>
>     Thanks.
>     Girvin Herr
>
>

--------------5ECE2EA5A9F762F5F8EAA376
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Chad,</p>
    <p>Thanks for your response. See my comments below.</p>
    <p>Another option would be to hand edit the ASCII pcb file. But I
      prefer not to do that, since it is error-prone. I could do more
      damage than good.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Another option would be to make one hole then Ctrl-c it and copy
      it to the other corners of the board. That works, but I think I
      will go with your #2 and Ctrl-h them. Yes, that worked fine. Now I
      have to remember to restore the default via parameters...<br>
    </p>
    <p>Thanks again. You are always helpful.<br>
      Girvin</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/9/19 1:37 PM, Chad Parker
      (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com">parker DOT charles AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Hi Girvin-</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Usually "Mode1" is like, the windows key, or the command
          key on a mac, I believe.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I tried the "windows" key but it did nothing on my Linux system.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>There should be newer versions of the pcb manual available,
          if you're using a more recent version of pcb, you should
          probably reference the associated manual.<br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I will have to look for this.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>You have a couple of different ways you can deal with this:</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>1. Select the via, then under the Select menu, there is an
          option to "change drilling hole of selected objects", and
          select vias +10 mils. This will work for holes too (they're
          really still vias under the hood).</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    This works, but it is tedious. I need a 0.187" hole. That's a lot of
    clicking for +5-mil increments. It would be nice to see some sort of
    element parameters edit feature, which brings up all the attributes
    of an element for editing, rather than one attribute at a time.
    There are many attributes that do not seem to have the ability to be
    changed in PCB. Circles come to mind. Making circles out of
    90-degree arcs is tedious. I had a circle in an element that I
    needed to change the diameter of. I could not find a menu option
    allowing me to change it and recreating it from arcs did not seem to
    be a good way to do it. I ended up hand editing the element file,
    changing the circle height and width. That worked, but...<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>2. Modify a route style to create a via with a hole the
          size you want, place it, and then set the hole flag.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    That is probably my best way to do what I want at this time.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>3. According to Info &gt; Key Bindings, you should be able
          to hit &lt;Alt-S&gt; to increase the drill hole size by 5
          mils, however, when I try this, the Alt gets captured and
          interpreted as a request to open a menu by GTK.
          &lt;Shift-Alt-S&gt; still works to make it smaller by 5 mils.
          This is something we need to fix.</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <p>Well, that makes perfect sense. Since there is a menu called
      "Settings", it would make sense that Alt-s would bring up that
      menu. That is standard window functionality. Alt-alpha should be
      avoided.</p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>4. Create a "footprint"/element with the hole you want, and
          load it. There may already be some standard sized mounting
          hole footprints in the library (if there aren't, there should
          be).<br>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    I will have to look into this. It is a good idea. If I can find
    clearance hole elements for standard screw sizes, say #2... #10, I
    could use them for most projects. If I can't find what I want, I
    will make some.<br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJZxidBMFu6CfWg1grbQnBtEECG0YooEUJ9ZBX39gLR-mLd=Mw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div>Thanks,</div>
        <div>--Chad<br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 9, 2019 at 4:18 PM
          Girvin Herr (<a href="mailto:gherrl AT fastmail DOT com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">gherrl AT fastmail DOT com</a>) [via <a
            href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" moz-do-not-send="true">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]
          &lt;<a href="mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Greetings,<br>
          <br>
          I am trying to create a mounting hole in my PCB design using
          PCB 4.1.3. <br>
          I first created a via, then used Ctrl-h to change it to a
          hole. That <br>
          seems to have worked. Now I am trying to enlarge the hole for
          a mounting <br>
          screw. The manual I have (Pcb-20110918 by Harry Eaton), page
          21, Para. <br>
          3.5.6 Vias, states to use "Mode1&lt;key&gt;v" to enlarge the
          hole. However, I <br>
          do not see where "Mode1" is defined and permutations of Alt-v,
          Esc-v, <br>
          Ctrl-v, etc do not create the correct results (enlarging the
          hole size <br>
          on-screen). Can someone tell me what "Mode1" is or describe
          how I can <br>
          change the hole size of an existing via?<br>
          <br>
          Thanks.<br>
          Girvin Herr<br>
          <br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------5ECE2EA5A9F762F5F8EAA376--