X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:27:36 +0100 (CET) X-X-Sender: igor2 AT igor2priv To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Debug: to=geda-user AT delorie DOT com from="gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu" From: gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu Subject: Re: [geda-user] Refdes bug or Master Attribute Document on the Wiki needs update. In-Reply-To: <4739A346-6DB4-4250-965C-13AA19863969@noqsi.com> Message-ID: References: <9ed059c0-f3c5-1482-169b-f8f1119f3208 AT fastmail DOT com> <5BC4365D-FBD0-4495-806B-C30BA710D31B AT noqsi DOT com> <4739A346-6DB4-4250-965C-13AA19863969 AT noqsi DOT com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (DEB 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-1657401018-1548872856=:21900" Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-1657401018-1548872856=:21900 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Wed, 30 Jan 2019, John Doty wrote: > > On Jan 30, 2019, at 12:23 PM, gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote: > >So please don't confuse the level of cooperation pcb-rnd gets from >your=C2=A0 >favorite tool with pcb-rnd's flexibility. Please don't try to define >what=C2=A0 >is not a goal of pcb-rnd: you have no role in pcb-rnd, you can't set >or=C2=A0 >change our goals. Please don't make up non-existing parts ("own >schematic=C2=A0 >capture [of pcb-rnd]") and don't spread that as if it was a fact. > > >You call that non-existing part cschem.=20 cschem is not part of pcb-rnd. It's as separate from pcb-rnd as lepton is.= =20 There was no plan ever to make cschem part of pcb-rnd or pcb-rnd part of=20 cschem. Cschem will be a schematic capture tool of its own right - it will= =20 work with pcb-rnd but it won't be limited to that, it will support=20 multiple workflows and formats. >Why not Lepton? I understand that >pcb-rnd is about *downstream* flexibility, but Lepton is the upstream kit No, pcb-rnd is about flexibility in all directions, not only down. Down is= =20 only one of the directions. We are also flexible up (back annotation) and= =20 sideways and in random directions (e.g. mechanical cads). We do have two lepton -> pcb-rnd flows at the moment: the old pcb export=20 (if lepton didn't change it) and the new tEDAx export (thanks to Bdale). There is no plan to remove the tEDAx flow from pcb-rnd, so I don't see=20 what you mean by "why not lepton" part.=20 >intended to support every downstream flow. Your flexibility is designed to >funnel everything into pcb-rnd, while what I need is support of multiple >back ends. No, this is false again. If I wanted funnel everything into pcb-rnd, I=20 would say we want a schemtics editor within pcb-rnd and we wouldn't have=20 plugins that export to protel/autotrax or kicad. We would then have only=20 code that imports from everywhere, trying to lock users in. But we don't=20 do that, we are trying to provide a tool that does whatever part of the=20 pcb layout job between whatever input and whatever output. So what we have instead of that, is an open toolkit, that doesn't=20 necessarily want to be the center or only tool of your workflow, but wants= =20 to provide you whatever you need around editing/massaging PCBs. Every bit= =20 of pcb-rnd is about that. And no, we do not limit this to a schematics->pcb flow. I see no reason to= =20 limit ourselves to only that one flow, as there are many other flows out=20 there. I also don't funnel in _everyting_: there is a clear scope, and even if=20 there is some user pressure to some popular ideas (such as "more modern=20 gui", "3d support built in", "schematic capture built in", "more advanced= =20 built-in autorouter"), I simply say no, because those things are just out= =20 of scope. I say these things have to be done outside of pcb-rnd. We do one= =20 thing, and we do that well: pcb layouts. It has very many aspects, from=20 having an efficient GUI editor to speaking dozens of file formats and we=20 are trying to do most of those aspects.=20 But at the end it's one thing, PCB layout, with a 100% clear scope. >The TESS electronics used three different layout organizations at >different stages of the project, using three different tools. See my point? pcb-rnd is strong in that. When they can't load=20 organization A's kicad board at organization B's protel/autotrax, that's=20 where you jump in with a Makefile that uses pcb-rnd to convert. No sch=20 involved. No GUI PCB editing involved. Not funneling anything in, not=20 locking in users.=20 Or when kicad is a PITA to use for exporting pngs automatically from a=20 Makefile, you can do the export from pcb-rnd that as -x. Multiple users, including me, use pcb-rnd for doing non-PCB 2d=20 editing, because it's small, fast, easy to use, has enough precision (and= =20 lately even good 2d drafting commands). --0-1657401018-1548872856=:21900--