X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-TCPREMOTEIP: 65.132.23.18 X-Authenticated-UID: jpd AT noqsi DOT com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BA6A993A-108A-4FAB-889D-BE509D366CEB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [geda-user] Trolling and free software responsibility X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: John Doty In-Reply-To: <20170708230414.GV12397@stuge.se> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2017 17:16:16 -0700 Message-Id: <9569E3DC-66E8-4AFD-BC70-7591AFDD5FF4@noqsi.com> References: <20170708230414 DOT GV12397 AT stuge DOT se> To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail=_BA6A993A-108A-4FAB-889D-BE509D366CEB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Jul 8, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Peter Stuge (peter AT stuge DOT se) [via = geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > Hi John, >=20 > what you did in this thread is absolutely unacceptable, and you > need to watch yourself so that you never do it again in this > community, or in any other. I will try to point it out clearly: My comments were in response to Roland=92s: > I'm still not sure why you are trying to re-create the efforts I have = already made refactoring gnetlist. I was explaining why I think Vladimir=92s efforts are productive. I = don=92t understand why you don=92t like what I=92m saying to Roland, = which is basically =93I think what you=92re doing is good, but I=92m not = climbing on board because I see some problems relative to Vladimir=92s = approach=94, while at the same time you don=92t criticize Roland for his = completely negative attitude about lepton. >=20 > John Doty wrote: >> using our traditional foundation, Scheme > .. >> We=92ve been well served by Scheme in the past. >=20 > You say that you do not want to change, away from Scheme. >=20 >=20 > John Doty wrote: >>> By now, the refactored code is 100% compatible with existing Scheme = code. >>=20 >> But that=92s no advance. >=20 > Then you criticize that the refactored code is backwards compatible, > made so such that you (and others) don't *need* to change, away from = Scheme. Except that what Vladimir is doing *is* an advance, *both* backward = compatible and more extensible in Scheme. >=20 >=20 > This is as clear a case of trolling as there ever will be, which is > completely unacceptable, and you need to stop it or GTFO - = immediately! >=20 >=20 >> A valid criticism, but Vladimir is moving the boundary so that more >> functionality is implemented in Scheme. That=92s especially helpful >> to me because more is therefore exposed to customization. >=20 > I know that there are people who are excited about the intersection > of Scheme and gEDA, which is cool, but I support Roland's approach > and effort to move away from Scheme, simply because it is more > sustainable. And I have supported it, if you=92ve followed all my comments over = recent years. But I see some problems: 1. I agree that those who find Scheme difficult should have an = alternative. However, some of us find Scheme a good tool. We shouldn=92t = be stuck with mere backward compatibility. 2. Those who claim to want an alternative have not, so far as I know, = come forward to embrace Roland=92s approach as a foundation for their = own customizations. I=92ve looked at it and found it difficult to = comprehend. Sometimes it seems that Roland thinks *I* should be his test = case, but I=92m more fluent with Scheme than Python, xorn seems = confusing and unnecessary to me, and I find my thinking more in sync = with Vladimir=92s. > The Scheme cost/benefit ratio is far too high. Who=92s being disparaging now? >=20 > This being free software you have the freedom (and responsibility!) > to maintain your own project when you disagree with other projects. And that=92s why I=92m working with Vladimir on lepton now. Roland = objects. By your own logic he shouldn=92t. >=20 > What you don't have if you disagree, is a right to occupy other > peoples' time. >=20 >=20 >> It was not easier for *me* to understand (obviously it is for you). > .. >> To a Schemer, Vladimir=92s approach is more transparent. >=20 > Great! Work with that project, and stay silent about others. Tell that to Roland, then. >=20 >=20 >> But the real question is whether either approach will attract >> add-on authors the way Ales=92s Scheme API did. >=20 > I think Roland's effort has created more potential for it. And if it happens, I=92ll cheer. I am not opposed to Roland=92s effort. = It is Roland who opposes lepton. >=20 >=20 > //Peter >=20 I find your unbalanced emotional interference in technical discussion = unacceptable. Please don=92t do this again. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ jpd AT noqsi DOT com --Apple-Mail=_BA6A993A-108A-4FAB-889D-BE509D366CEB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZYXXRAAoJEF1Aj/0UKykRDyUQAJURBOfEAaDxpyFYTANRBzR6 8h5pzdRSe9qYqUEJD6QyGVjpPXvLCLkT1W0snMdT4BftAVXPtdwOYlzLc+GCgNoy SlnR69h2/sbion2GiB1xhF26wjGMImGSvq8ETl/A1eMiuY4G56elc0WNfap8QuYb myEaEV3Fa5nPyOghcSxKK/5eTFHT3xWU29Sra/8ONSOZaKtWyWqhm02HLbZkKa2p 1Dkfrj69Fzt2QN6XjMUFHpjDICNFOa3OW5+1syMdPkmGePJY0En0LULLQs89mxy3 2t4nW10ivLctGaRbbiLpKsNYEi/oD//UKO4QD0F36rylQVAr7bQvA1bz9DaIdc4f QiWoGUrk/pqbwomY+uJIg5mhhvJrryXtf/MN/zuQQFK8SeO0S44VhgBtVrzcvuBY SOZ+pStF/QbycdvQlDuZmJvXROB8RH9RfP50dskcpmNmlC3C7DFiIOJBsuhcbjEN NjIyELnqHhKHVM+H88y6Ve83OEcCjpxC2wuT0716tFgdTvQjUkyAmlYvkVt2frZ5 M1SrCmCdXQu3nDbHNZ7G5c0VTuPKs1R3vDJ3yX960bGEHZ3w49zQGJJcTJ1S8ZvH 8a+JP6a8WyrvmKrUlAJ+zRVE162qffGuwH3PaPT3YPTDqtv2G+9H7Nuh7KqwSYhc Hpvox7gOyjXX3AxpgMaR =rq3D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_BA6A993A-108A-4FAB-889D-BE509D366CEB--