X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-TCPREMOTEIP: 207.224.51.38 X-Authenticated-UID: jpd AT noqsi DOT com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84B2EC3C-2CDE-4BA9-887B-A9386E758B5F"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [geda-user] We are about to alienate users was -> geda-gaf fork X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail From: John Doty In-Reply-To: <5d312c0b-00a5-c81b-8743-893fca16a54d@wellesley.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 09:24:29 -0700 Message-Id: References: <5cfb4f73-3c77-e8e2-b838-840f8ea43879 AT iae DOT nl> <7276b7ff-d4af-64cf-2906-f656369f8f85 AT iae DOT nl> <5d312c0b-00a5-c81b-8743-893fca16a54d AT wellesley DOT edu> To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail=_84B2EC3C-2CDE-4BA9-887B-A9386E758B5F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Feb 14, 2017, at 8:56 AM, James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu) [via = geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 2/14/17 10:29 AM, myken wrote: >> On 14/02/17 15:47, John Doty wrote: >>> The problem is that there=92s no clear line here. gEDA isn=92t = consumer software. Many users who are not core developers are = contributors, especially at gedasymbols.org. If you expect to be a = consumer of some integrated thing, gEDA isn=92t for you anyway. >> Sure, but no new user is a contributor at the beginning of his/her = interest. They are just looking for confirmation that it is safe to = invest time into the suite. And believe me listing in on the geda-user = list will not give you that confirmation. And as a contributor you may = also not be interested in the development stuff. geda-users, = geda-contrib, geda-develp, geda-rant. >>=20 >> But then again make a choice. If you all want gEDA to be a obscure = specialised tool only accessible by the die-hards and core uses, please = do so. Nothing needs to change then :-) > +1. >=20 > And I'll add that I really don't understand why some folks on this = list take on the attitude reflected in John D.'s comment: > "If you expect to be a consumer of some integrated thing, gEDA isn=92t = for you anyway." > 1) why does a user have to become a developer? Surely you'd get = satisfaction if the tools that you have invested so much time in are = useful to other people as-is. KiCAD is a better tool for you if you want something packaged and = integrated. But, if you have difficult jobs that are going to require = you to fill in some blank spaces, gEDA is what you want. > 2) how do you expect to attract and retain users or developers with = this stance? >=20 gEDA attracted and retained *me*. I started out using it to capture = schematics for ngspice. Then, I was working with a layout contractor = using PH70, an obscure Lincoln Lab layout tool. I was able to cargo cult = a back end for that. Then it was IC design review (back to ngspice). = Then IC design, making netlists for a layout shop using Cadence. A bunch = of work on schematics for various customers with various layout tool = preferences. Abstract symbolic circuit analysis with a Mathematica back = end I wrote. Try navigating that with KiCAD. gEDA covers a very = different space: that=92s what it=92s for. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ jpd AT noqsi DOT com --Apple-Mail=_84B2EC3C-2CDE-4BA9-887B-A9386E758B5F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYoy8+AAoJEF1Aj/0UKykRFH4P/RzkKplQYZBwTjuwmTrdpdT9 5d4WfXic2nUBxMqwm2Io+6eH2qrpueswIcCCggPWgDGX/OUYRpjSoV3dfFoxhep6 5OSrnrHgGI/LY0BPU54nkgpU0VYFcDAzlaMuVFUAkRRt8ndbczTOXI5oZA0cl0MX A/QKGDH0xHt+4DWem873Z3f0LM9+GBbGtBfJFKoSMSIs4w/ifpqvMbJQWHugRwLN sDdhSTSPHhTKkt8oGTZBLP0WtYTiiNtG5LxpZRkbfpjHDNpkyJoit90cEOGgFEpG N4JqWAfwS1KDqW96dTZR1DZGoTJ6nvY9PZaxdtut3drErRRHev/JnCLBsETo9AOZ I1F9N+U4YU3pXLZsgMU7kDw3B2+yMemPCP6o/HyhfmWFdRHaKpRMkwWJHy9d0wUI RqDYiHmfg/x12Lb/eW57CDsdYBGeaINNFnc76pneounjetZxVk2c1xmLJuhDX0D6 m1D5wrEV1qzW04VOPqs0mDb/YiEj1rCSoJlx++TLeO/XEFVpv1GTvtpNfXe/lNa1 4x4EhanLCUYk7yONz6ecGA8i8bkzJqCQG7LVpp6QnkJsT+iC203LYvp1bnvBAE3p jnMfiTL3BYLAWUBlcZgDj7kHUHcnNqF+BxISpVPNMgqCpVjfIbc3CjfIJ+k9C8uN xJYNMaPs2gPza1aAwPg1 =zwYQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_84B2EC3C-2CDE-4BA9-887B-A9386E758B5F--