X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Envelope-From: paubert AT iram DOT es Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 09:51:18 +0200 From: "Gabriel Paubert (paubert AT iram DOT es) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: [geda-user] Microwave PCB layout simulation or How to eat all your processing power in 3 easy steps Message-ID: <20160901075118.GA5753@visitor2.iram.es> References: <0f623d55-c654-88af-ca54-52bb385f51e0 AT neurotica DOT com> <20160831041644 DOT GA6695 AT recycle DOT lbl DOT gov> <20160831061012 DOT GA6882 AT recycle DOT lbl DOT gov> <20160831171320 DOT GA8813 AT recycle DOT lbl DOT gov> <20160831213938 DOT GA9594 AT recycle DOT lbl DOT gov> <20160901042523 DOT GA10314 AT recycle DOT lbl DOT gov> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20160901042523.GA10314@recycle.lbl.gov> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Spamina-Bogosity: Unsure X-Spamina-Spam-Score: -0.2 (/) X-Spamina-Spam-Report: Content analysis details: (-0.2 points) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.8 BAYES_50 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 40 to 60% [score: 0.5000] Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 09:25:23PM -0700, Larry Doolittle wrote: > Evan - > > On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 12:07:28AM +0000, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Larry Doolittle wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 03:53:25PM -0400, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > > >> I thought soldermask issues were why most of the microwave and other > > >> RF hardware I have seen has no soldermask. > > > For the long lines, yes, depending on the designer, but eventually > > > those lines usually touch chips. And high-speed serial lanes (with > > > the interesting frequency range now going up to 40 GHz) usually don't > > > have soldermask stripped off. > > At those frequencies I would actually think the chip would be supplied > > as bare die and wire bonded. > > These days Xilinx BGAs have I/O rated for 25 Gb/s, with pretty broad spectral > content up to 40 GHz. I'm used to microwave circuits mostly ranging from > 1 - 3 GHz, and all the Mini-Circuits and Hittite chips that cover that range > (and higher) are in relatively conventional packages. Even to higher frequencies, we've been building here amplifiers with chips like Hittite's HMC462LP5 and using them up to 12GHz. They are specified to up 20GHz, but I can't test that high because we reach the limits of the connectors/launchers on the boards we've built. At these frequencies, the choice of the substrate is important, we use 20mil thick Rogers RO4350 (or RO4003, can't remember) but the transition from coaxial cable to the controlled impedance track is the most critical part: I've had once an enclosure with a mistake of 0.5 or 0.6 mm in the depth of the hole in which a glass bead is inserted. The effect on the SWR was enormous, catastrophic at 10GHz and higher. For the controlled impedance tracks, we typically use conductor backed coplanar waveguide, taking into account the effect of the cover of the shielded enclosure on the impedance. And no these boards don't have solder masks, for other boards, where I also had to wire bond a diode, the solder mask was mostly removed along the tracks and the edges of the ground plane. Some was left as solder stops to limit solder flow along the track. Gabriel