X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XEJ+GFxOwmYWr6nHQOZJI5EkQPlf8TDFtVqXfynp0Us=; b=b6b2AQK2s0EI2DWwz1fQhqAsiZGq2Yw2lvO9/ULNjKxut0WhqnLIA0X5Du3pufy0yU 4zLgwvSrJOnnYvNh4zfHqFpMO6FcpPOonXlhxRwOGqJaTYmGbXPP6YuYFx2t8N7fEhC+ t3xSCibxmHOQeyVHU0Pq+gD4Z5FzI4as/f8/D+UtveuwiqNiBnyVWpmG/CAvElVB5REa lDcvw05jkhnmQwy4gyZ0t15+zpVkUYWoWfc+duCAT7bt/GtpRc5pxd5zC7wyRjTkidpF +z5mvSHdNqAzidP+MWgMlhXKYFLCTslfInvZ3IFuhRwwo8RnsQGDsVFpSmPRcz2kY4Xh ejhA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XEJ+GFxOwmYWr6nHQOZJI5EkQPlf8TDFtVqXfynp0Us=; b=i8elyb4IyQsWYeaYZIX26Jp6kaZFhIkKgwAsmVnTUl6r+rtaHhNvhulEqaZAcor1Nm YB19dogIlk4eudfbqX1ZfivKBb/UlrlszWUhCvdoN/tS/fM6rLj5E4qbCLeZ3rk/Uzoe AvvdIyrGL4Eh6+sckDq/eDqYKjCpEycvHxDg5TN8aE37GK/eKMAEHcRvgFbs8KlcN5tc 9mJACbOSFrNPE8hW7VNg4Nd9t8O6cP18uUKjByVMDw/O8+cJRXMEkVVbrzifLDJIpPMM s/Gxf9RHCuifqR3ers3Sf1S0c1SWCLZrxb/DbjoD2HLlTxantGWd+QZU2hFzD9TfAtxJ O3hg== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkooutwIuz80ymnsgdoxAXv5zGPMV2ZuwImTsXntAdhbFDpbWqYiNAA+qtN/B0XZ5gZk/xH7kBMt9jIK1yYXw== X-Received: by 10.25.211.209 with SMTP id k200mr2927443lfg.178.1469571578365; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 15:19:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 22:19:37 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: [geda-user] Why we lost another user? -> Re: Why we just lost some users? -> Re: [geda-user] Stay or go? To: gEDA users mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id u6QMJhup006983 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Sorry to top post but before we get into this thread I want people to just comment on what James said framing everything only in terms of how we might change some aspect of the project. I am not asking people to commit to changing anything. I am not agitating for a change in something specific. I am just trying to see if we can figure out what James is looking for from the software. Likewise the point is not for people to blurt out the answers we already have to James's questions. We all know there are solutions, the point is to find ones that we have not already done or new ways to get them to users. On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 9:22 PM, James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > > I am moving this to it's own thread just because I want it to get some > added attention. I am hoping Marvin can respond with out being > harassed by people looking to debate what he needs/wants because I > want to honestly know (as I think others do/should) what people are > looking for in gEDA that we currently don't have. > > > I can add one point of view here. When I was a brand-new user (started > using gEDA in 2014 — I still consider myself a “quite new" user), I found > the following frustrating when trying out gEDA: > > * Difficulty to install on my machine (Mac) (e.g. here and here) > Eventually, but reluctantly, I gave up and settled on running gschem/pcb > in a linux virtual machine. > Once I chose to switch though, the linux install was painless. > > * Lack of coherent documentation for new users like myself to get off the > ground > For example, I had been following the recommendation to use gsch2pcb > (which is the first listed tutorial for how to start using gEDA) for more > than a year before I stumbled upon the “Import Schematic” feature in pcb. > And, IIRC, the documentation for that is scattered throughout mailing list > posts. > > * Lack of searchable archive of the mailing list(?) Maybe there is one, but > I haven’t found it. > As a result, I often stumble across useful mailing list content by > accident when doing somewhat related google searches (e.g. the Import > Schematic example above). > > * No straightforward way to share a design (with relevant > symbols/footprints) to collaborators. > see e.g. recent discussion on that topic. > > I work at a college, and the issues above pose a barrier to collaborating > with students who are new to EDA. i.e. it makes it hard to “bring new users > into the fold.” In contrast, there is ample Eagle/KiCad documentation, and > the students prefer to start there. > > Since 2014, I've posted many questions to geda-help and geda-user, and the > responses are often helpful and quick, and I really appreciate that. > But sometimes it’s clear that there just isn’t a straightforward solution to > the issue, and often no sense that a solution is coming soon. > > Some examples: > > * Bug in pcb when flipping component to back side of board > > * No good way to implement single-point grounding in pcb (or to specify it > in gschem). > The recommended work-around was to use a capital letter I on a copper > layer to bridge AGND and DGND, which only works because the pcb DRC ignores > text... > > * Can’t omit the solder mask layer in pcb > > * pcb insists on using elements from the default library (without manually > deleting the default library). e.g. (here and here) > > Overall though, I like the unixy aspects of gschem/pcb enough to stick with > it and puzzle things out. So please know that I am very appreciative of the > existence of both programs and of the community that supports them. > > James -- Home http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ Work http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQENBFYy4RYBCAC183JomLtbdAlcKiaPDoVHq52LDmVmH75aiEc69m7YxDt54/ai VtYCAobbGVIyn3Hlz3uhF6LnPl/6Lm1VdnCfpwu3KQhCO6ds10ow2C30X4ohCqOd hCVg5C+ILmQkEffFrFODy3ji+PYTF4pADvHCWsTMv0hf0llwFOJsBCK6cl02IffE JPqy4PjM1nZ9HpzT84JBaG/4OGvTZ8SQ2yFUl265jagvygPTf88H1xpZHH1r8dB1 stjUHLmPH8AOyDgKxFchgGeDc3p/vJtgDDIXAFfDXG0NSRovLmtaQdGxe47Zf/go bXiEM7YL2WqQe5zfEA919JxkEwlDKYniOSVzABEBAAG0N0V2YW4gRm9zcyAoVGhp cyBpcyBteSBwdWJsaWMga2V5LikgPGV2YW5mb3NzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JATkEEwEC ACMFAlYy4RYCGwMHCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCIpQTcE8nN bbBaCACAm8pU5lG1ev2Fsw68Axtcl57SJrYieqX96c3YuYH9JpqMqJRnd9nDKw9X tQuvuH7tUk0VbOaDqReOYJVI/4c5wb9AaOFp6K2DUcupq6XhgXpvz3HzoPwjAdIj XuQzdRUx5+innTJrSkGuBYW/CZ2zqEx4xfLlq4rO0hoTUMR8QVp2cCrkw6BT0m86 APIw/ZnjoxM8IEzr7MxfRIg3qpzrZk28rmhx+k78Jyk61UhwcCPGIm/pjUopTwYJ 3YBdRB2cYD2aN7A1JVf5cRmSQYooHBGpH0kYvomGk97PKqypVuJ7OpG9xM58wUcC qUVt9hKlePLzP8csYjt8onqI7qIIuQENBFYy4RYBCADlH8spG3WkCx62vB5mr5Z0 SCDd/RcyA4A5y5EOj5KurQkrSWpgi9Ho1yKruMJ6blQR2qkc66KqH9pnXDm/ZI1M K/wdW3ngETxBmXoozzFMT89aEWIVR5/PFodWK1elekE9iJxACuR98Zg2QttTD3x8 A9w8VEyMLOXcDTrPFpHegMKswFBg5iuMulAdXAoGejWTI3n+qKFpabHm2Lfs6wjk 5rjucpTdeFK6UeWF1xAvNxXibuu5BlGwv53930qIXRwO/Gn2Rh5DXWxKU2fEIme/ xgQQmIsDeUoWbfybdjw/x7Q0LW4mINiLDQcGHHRQKFIxbAJCT3USPLGh5xwE9/Er ABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlYy4RYCGwwACgkQiKUE3BPJzW0uYAf9Hf30n8tM3mR2 Zo6ESE0ivgdgjaJtAWrBUx7JzAzPjBnBOlNnu5Y9lVEqetvUPH6e3PvaHYUuaUU8 0HwxuKBW9nUprgV6uIu1DZmlcp+SxpbuCy7RDpNocRLNWWFMaYYzznmTgfnTgD4D gCq8Mf1mcfrluTkOAo+QNqbMfl1GISClopRqxVuAo59ewgMnFujwgd8w12BwWl24 CzqOs5HqcUslePj+LzcjSNgVCklYwKl+0dsb/fctMOCtHodwqm2CBJ+zydvNmYkD fxda/J91Z1xrah5ec++FL0L4vs+jCiIWJeupJFKlr1hCMZiiGH7W554loK5l4jv3 EY347EidAw== =Ta4p -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----