X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0EDrTVyUAvjn5vabKjqdZrSKv6W9xkGFu83lrY4t/lE=; b=J5ekXmk1yt3ygeU/N1kjJIiN9RNftAIeM2fJcSGOBXkEwHEAwMKEULLRrZPZLsqXEm zf0hxsfbnZxumtdfAqBEN0XdQAAMNAX7xM5evPuCWE7XXAwzQbj8IX4oddHrv0+9xL6b f8mQYKyQG//n9PYoMWFcnc7Yor9QrQTSVSI2J1d3ogTzdzoOczNTX7CCUm8JJ7j43Fj0 WnIbBZG0ZU5m7B98C2wATfSK731Z/EG0MPJHCwB39xO1+Lfl9EPbJCwPznysxVbEINKm LZx7OKrqXiHDOfoTLq4rtTYtVNvvhZHzma9Tl+/ObJHbhey2dnxGE43Tadd5LXPixfq6 tAcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0EDrTVyUAvjn5vabKjqdZrSKv6W9xkGFu83lrY4t/lE=; b=R0rDGBiItiVmZXXtLX3T0B7wFULd08/s/UrMoSPFfIhXtQ/TSN/UpNFBg6X/Et9QUf yMeCQncj1DPI7x2xFzo+nb+t7Hc2WDXHiv9TgzveJ10FEjLQQufK4oBVaimuR4V6+2Zr gqQ7Vl+JbWngWA4H+T4KL1RA8qN2LcVq5tdQhZ4Zz3sv+8QfW2AC0f/a6ZNAMW4clGz0 /CppcXULj4eWqyTMBl3NhHf2d3RqAA2t6p8qroczoTUYrrGugerHlh03emY9E1REnJyP 3GZYVEUjLIYDpqS2q3wcScjN8Yp4oicncHxZXkCkA9A5/x3JtNiNqzsPklKEHaCHTSPU M4dA== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoousrTxiC9V8rUz+O9dES0IdR87rkWzlZ/9eJbEHt1/sZnHLJJmRCQJN9hk3NOoFe/Rf6/abHKEMw5BqT1w== X-Received: by 10.25.16.92 with SMTP id f89mr8734104lfi.143.1469568893726; Tue, 26 Jul 2016 14:34:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <305C8358-7EE6-43FD-8D86-21BE3CE07FC6@wellesley.edu> References: <305C8358-7EE6-43FD-8D86-21BE3CE07FC6 AT wellesley DOT edu> From: "Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 17:34:52 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we just lost some users? -> Re: [geda-user] Stay or go? To: gEDA users mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id u6QLYwXZ001825 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 5:22 PM, James Battat (jbattat AT wellesley DOT edu) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > > I am moving this to it's own thread just because I want it to get some > added attention. I am hoping Marvin can respond with out being > harassed by people looking to debate what he needs/wants because I > want to honestly know (as I think others do/should) what people are > looking for in gEDA that we currently don't have. > > > I can add one point of view here. When I was a brand-new user (started > using gEDA in 2014 — I still consider myself a “quite new" user), I found > the following frustrating when trying out gEDA: > > * Difficulty to install on my machine (Mac) (e.g. here and here) > Eventually, but reluctantly, I gave up and settled on running gschem/pcb > in a linux virtual machine. > Once I chose to switch though, the linux install was painless. > > * Lack of coherent documentation for new users like myself to get off the > ground > For example, I had been following the recommendation to use gsch2pcb > (which is the first listed tutorial for how to start using gEDA) for more > than a year before I stumbled upon the “Import Schematic” feature in pcb. > And, IIRC, the documentation for that is scattered throughout mailing list > posts. > > * Lack of searchable archive of the mailing list(?) Maybe there is one, but > I haven’t found it. > As a result, I often stumble across useful mailing list content by > accident when doing somewhat related google searches (e.g. the Import > Schematic example above). > > * No straightforward way to share a design (with relevant > symbols/footprints) to collaborators. > see e.g. recent discussion on that topic. > > I work at a college, and the issues above pose a barrier to collaborating > with students who are new to EDA. i.e. it makes it hard to “bring new users > into the fold.” In contrast, there is ample Eagle/KiCad documentation, and > the students prefer to start there. > > Since 2014, I've posted many questions to geda-help and geda-user, and the > responses are often helpful and quick, and I really appreciate that. > But sometimes it’s clear that there just isn’t a straightforward solution to > the issue, and often no sense that a solution is coming soon. > > Some examples: > > * Bug in pcb when flipping component to back side of board > > * No good way to implement single-point grounding in pcb (or to specify it > in gschem). > The recommended work-around was to use a capital letter I on a copper > layer to bridge AGND and DGND, which only works because the pcb DRC ignores > text... > > * Can’t omit the solder mask layer in pcb > > * pcb insists on using elements from the default library (without manually > deleting the default library). e.g. (here and here) > > Overall though, I like the unixy aspects of gschem/pcb enough to stick with > it and puzzle things out. So please know that I am very appreciative of the > existence of both programs and of the community that supports them. > > James Thanks James but I was hoping to keep this thread about Marvin's experiance. Lets look at your bad experience with this in it's own thread ok? -- Home http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ Work http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQENBFYy4RYBCAC183JomLtbdAlcKiaPDoVHq52LDmVmH75aiEc69m7YxDt54/ai VtYCAobbGVIyn3Hlz3uhF6LnPl/6Lm1VdnCfpwu3KQhCO6ds10ow2C30X4ohCqOd hCVg5C+ILmQkEffFrFODy3ji+PYTF4pADvHCWsTMv0hf0llwFOJsBCK6cl02IffE JPqy4PjM1nZ9HpzT84JBaG/4OGvTZ8SQ2yFUl265jagvygPTf88H1xpZHH1r8dB1 stjUHLmPH8AOyDgKxFchgGeDc3p/vJtgDDIXAFfDXG0NSRovLmtaQdGxe47Zf/go bXiEM7YL2WqQe5zfEA919JxkEwlDKYniOSVzABEBAAG0N0V2YW4gRm9zcyAoVGhp cyBpcyBteSBwdWJsaWMga2V5LikgPGV2YW5mb3NzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JATkEEwEC ACMFAlYy4RYCGwMHCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCIpQTcE8nN bbBaCACAm8pU5lG1ev2Fsw68Axtcl57SJrYieqX96c3YuYH9JpqMqJRnd9nDKw9X tQuvuH7tUk0VbOaDqReOYJVI/4c5wb9AaOFp6K2DUcupq6XhgXpvz3HzoPwjAdIj XuQzdRUx5+innTJrSkGuBYW/CZ2zqEx4xfLlq4rO0hoTUMR8QVp2cCrkw6BT0m86 APIw/ZnjoxM8IEzr7MxfRIg3qpzrZk28rmhx+k78Jyk61UhwcCPGIm/pjUopTwYJ 3YBdRB2cYD2aN7A1JVf5cRmSQYooHBGpH0kYvomGk97PKqypVuJ7OpG9xM58wUcC qUVt9hKlePLzP8csYjt8onqI7qIIuQENBFYy4RYBCADlH8spG3WkCx62vB5mr5Z0 SCDd/RcyA4A5y5EOj5KurQkrSWpgi9Ho1yKruMJ6blQR2qkc66KqH9pnXDm/ZI1M K/wdW3ngETxBmXoozzFMT89aEWIVR5/PFodWK1elekE9iJxACuR98Zg2QttTD3x8 A9w8VEyMLOXcDTrPFpHegMKswFBg5iuMulAdXAoGejWTI3n+qKFpabHm2Lfs6wjk 5rjucpTdeFK6UeWF1xAvNxXibuu5BlGwv53930qIXRwO/Gn2Rh5DXWxKU2fEIme/ xgQQmIsDeUoWbfybdjw/x7Q0LW4mINiLDQcGHHRQKFIxbAJCT3USPLGh5xwE9/Er ABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlYy4RYCGwwACgkQiKUE3BPJzW0uYAf9Hf30n8tM3mR2 Zo6ESE0ivgdgjaJtAWrBUx7JzAzPjBnBOlNnu5Y9lVEqetvUPH6e3PvaHYUuaUU8 0HwxuKBW9nUprgV6uIu1DZmlcp+SxpbuCy7RDpNocRLNWWFMaYYzznmTgfnTgD4D gCq8Mf1mcfrluTkOAo+QNqbMfl1GISClopRqxVuAo59ewgMnFujwgd8w12BwWl24 CzqOs5HqcUslePj+LzcjSNgVCklYwKl+0dsb/fctMOCtHodwqm2CBJ+zydvNmYkD fxda/J91Z1xrah5ec++FL0L4vs+jCiIWJeupJFKlr1hCMZiiGH7W554loK5l4jv3 EY347EidAw== =Ta4p -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----