On 28 February 201= 6 at 21:48, Britton Kerin (britt= on DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-= user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
=

On S= un, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak <kmk AT familieknaak DOT de> wrote:
> Britton Kerin wrote:
>
>> Without a selection:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* hot keys (Ctrl-X Ctrl-V)= dump you in paste mode with
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nothing to paste an= d the crosshair locked in a strange
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0way
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0* menu items put in expect= -click mode, but when they get
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0a click they don= 9;t actually cut or copy anything, but
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0instead lock the cr= osshair in a strange way and dump you
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0in paste mode, only= with nothing to paste
>
> I agree, this is an issue which irritated about every student I
> introduced to geda.
>
>
>> Options:
>>
>> 1. Require a selection, give an erro pop-up if there isn't one= .
>> * Pros: simplest to implement, minimal surprise, surprise explaine= d
>> * Cons: requires a selection
>>
>> 2. If no selection, overload hovered/clicked point to select
>> object in addition
>> to establishing snap point.
>> * Pros: single-element cut/copy behave as probably expected,
>> more convenient for experienced users also
>> * Cons: slightly harder to implement, potentially surprising
>> behavior
>>
>> Opinions or other approaches?
>
> I like the second option. It is compatible with the general notion: > "use selection if it exists, else use the object under the mouse<= br> > pointer". IMHO, the ability to act on objects without explicit > selection is one of the strengths of the current pcb GUI.

There are a couple things with 2.=C2=A0 It makes things work th= e obvious way when
no selection, but with selection that intuitive behavior is suddenly gone.<= br> Convenient but surprising.=C2=A0 Also, its possible to select things that c= an't
be cut/copied independently (element pins/pads).=C2=A0 Things like B appare= ntly
handle this by acting on the containing element but it's again a bit le= ss
intuitive.=C2=A0 It's somewhat disturbing that cut/copy silently ignore= portions
of the selection they can't act on, but there's a good chance exper= ienced
users habitually take advantage of that behavior.

>
> There is one item on my wish list, that would make this paradigm much<= br> > more transparent --> Somehow highlight the object under the mouse s= o
> you can see in advance what is going to be affected by an action. The<= br> > challenge is to find a non-obtrusive way that "works" even i= n crowded
> circumstances.

This is on my list too sine Peter Clifton mentioned it as a possibil= ity.
The uncertainty about what's being selected or acted on is one of the big things that make pcb feel rickety for new users and it keeps on being somewhat annoying even for quite experienced users.=C2=A0 Unfortunately I t= hink
expect-click mode is going to be a big obstacle to this.=C2=A0 It looks lik= e it
mostly locks up the GUI and runs its own loop.=C2=A0 I don't fully unde= rstand it
but I guess updates to the drawing area are not going to happen or need wil= d
contortions to achieve.

Britton