X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=tp7dbf8no6Jt8QBWe7LpC6QpHBPH+qbk6NyBPp2J2XI=; b=fd2IpQuPs5RJqtmvxLaZd2r+/v+7Dpneogq1bNlviTz/HDiNUO0MhbvMWfyOtGOBv9 WP0TlkLUs1jU6L5m+HYDr0Mtv6DxjkAwMLCgi1fsIZ9371Ic6NCkEDssfejMsb8N4KKO t9smPh798lnvNUhoOTdOkaXMUm+E7sYOa4V5tVR9hrfymIcmGP91Udsq7vAwzlhvVBdi V/LLnkPL9A9roj+TDFwcq/6ZfVVrrlXHHIkYBxftGDogVp5NCnL0nOFYRjCJUd+HyYXc rgoGY2C5C2MZ9pjhxEefwK72eHRr4dKjO1MRJvjb02VsKR4xc3XBVNA9cQs1YeqN5Wf7 kahQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=tp7dbf8no6Jt8QBWe7LpC6QpHBPH+qbk6NyBPp2J2XI=; b=hyMsyMVYZxODemXlEdp3Wb1D5xRASSZDwEeuBxTpKfh7B0d5LBDy0MmutYigVpgbn6 Xh8c6qdH/Ek+G121VC8BjhtRkAPFXE42WpEUDwwacXmQWUpRZ2hLw1xN28gy+wAbB/xR PwDDqrslJewQYh+z7B5FZW0feJX+HGa3wj7enfwXwQb6sk2o7kMqYqg827pTIo/ZdvBY AquQL8gowSxUnmc1RBrjd83LzvEJy5vAwN+zBPllrqESEjSbBU3RvcaPIZvzq6rcYFdG bgJ56x+yxdvD3/SDxsjzsHCDDWARhRgbDYbePaTvVgxhxeCxJ4VxZoMlPXkyYfXQc5uy Ui+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJd/6bVQk0UOgYnULZWkuGBdwJmJ9AaD21/Z4sapSbC6vbY35gqU91owvO9zrNoNgtWNq6lKmExP+almg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.28.5.203 with SMTP id 194mr8977605wmf.101.1456696113888; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 13:48:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 12:48:33 -0900 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] how to fix cut and copy behavior when no selection From: "Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 5:47 AM, Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > Britton Kerin wrote: > >> Without a selection: >> * hot keys (Ctrl-X Ctrl-V) dump you in paste mode with >> nothing to paste and the crosshair locked in a strange >> way >> * menu items put in expect-click mode, but when they get >> a click they don't actually cut or copy anything, but >> instead lock the crosshair in a strange way and dump you >> in paste mode, only with nothing to paste > > I agree, this is an issue which irritated about every student I > introduced to geda. > > >> Options: >> >> 1. Require a selection, give an erro pop-up if there isn't one. >> * Pros: simplest to implement, minimal surprise, surprise explained >> * Cons: requires a selection >> >> 2. If no selection, overload hovered/clicked point to select >> object in addition >> to establishing snap point. >> * Pros: single-element cut/copy behave as probably expected, >> more convenient for experienced users also >> * Cons: slightly harder to implement, potentially surprising >> behavior >> >> Opinions or other approaches? > > I like the second option. It is compatible with the general notion: > "use selection if it exists, else use the object under the mouse > pointer". IMHO, the ability to act on objects without explicit > selection is one of the strengths of the current pcb GUI. There are a couple things with 2. It makes things work the obvious way when no selection, but with selection that intuitive behavior is suddenly gone. Convenient but surprising. Also, its possible to select things that can't be cut/copied independently (element pins/pads). Things like B apparently handle this by acting on the containing element but it's again a bit less intuitive. It's somewhat disturbing that cut/copy silently ignore portions of the selection they can't act on, but there's a good chance experienced users habitually take advantage of that behavior. > > There is one item on my wish list, that would make this paradigm much > more transparent --> Somehow highlight the object under the mouse so > you can see in advance what is going to be affected by an action. The > challenge is to find a non-obtrusive way that "works" even in crowded > circumstances. This is on my list too sine Peter Clifton mentioned it as a possibility. The uncertainty about what's being selected or acted on is one of the big things that make pcb feel rickety for new users and it keeps on being somewhat annoying even for quite experienced users. Unfortunately I think expect-click mode is going to be a big obstacle to this. It looks like it mostly locks up the GUI and runs its own loop. I don't fully understand it but I guess updates to the drawing area are not going to happen or need wild contortions to achieve. Britton