X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=EQTQCPZvqFgPAu1+cM9p6inTSLC+kHY7JKnUv5mi5JQ=; b=Yrf/cfnipHuorLCYxgF2JTttfSZgsWaxsWAzG++o022EhGroZrD05CI7S/RNGrTo72 +WSjE8Jx7/gNS+Zuj0mIKLgRUan7THxAfTRCMVeVRQdWk57Q4AgyEsOnseAcgA3RSjJC NG3HSOzA8IUd0bdHdG8rQurEehCbIN1u/hjEbWqYb2nTkGbRqsKQ3k5sqxJCbQQ95C9C pauqsqMjhDZJCu5cumnWgGZIfDcZ8fXAg1yDfWuCIEVa691ygLFPqdQxPbJwPqdau8Ou LdLz5GA91eu1PN0ItY7qqbsss7ijrFYdeHDwHuqR2rdIBRFVHusWxXCq48v9XIMi3Hbc nRgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=EQTQCPZvqFgPAu1+cM9p6inTSLC+kHY7JKnUv5mi5JQ=; b=OTcgFFU3g17ACTmhMMOZuMA6wyNDsJCtcj/7SuguUnCDSbtl9QlWIy0eRRejYUef0d 6bWRM9JIC1sbJ+0ZcWsLc5VNb39JfpMlctba41kOujDL1AYzE86HKTtP775QDPtZFUft r/5DxcwC/HvyYrmIe/Id8Z5NoJWGKDf/9/4MmmU0tkbS0ghdzubhLJaoXWJlJcKw5Gxo A4ZkTjIEjc2IBY5AQcUyjWqebDkZ8w1+L9j7/ud7eQol5QlqxCOq7aw0E4Ciwt89t+0i dMoOfVyAHuTOA50/Sd4hS6Dh+phdGCI//Ub4ZdbWfMmBI9WS4fxaOG9WAlU1+KrUp6RN ZXIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOSxEnJqnMb5CCwehfvV0+aV1ERcv9RHJnuW9rmrJsU5/erlh4hWunx4LY0IXVCcdOdZ0ZHPPMslGCLboA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.71.70 with SMTP id s6mr41414446wju.1.1456369859846; Wed, 24 Feb 2016 19:10:59 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 18:10:59 -0900 Message-ID: Subject: [geda-user] exactly how is moving between sides/layers supposed to work, and more generally... From: "Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com I've always just muddled through on the basic knowledge that: Select->Move selected elements to other side, followed by a click would put parts on other side and Select->Move selected to current layer would move already selected traces to the current layer In going through documenting everything I found the more useful B hotkey which sends the hovered element straight through the board without requiring a pre-select or additional click. These are all useful operations but the interface is painfully inconsistent about them: 1. Select->Move selected elements to other side (Shift-B) Can handle sets of selected elements, but requires them to first be selected and then the selection clicked after the menu item is activated to send them to the other side. The hotkey sends selected items to the other side immediately, but doesn't do anything if nothing is selected. Alternately, iff nothing is selected before the menu item is activated, a single subsequently clicked element is sent to the other side 2. Select->Move selected to current layer (Shift-M) Ignores elements (its name should change to reflect this). When either the menu item or the hot key is activated, the selected lines/arcs/polys/maybe_other_things are moved to the current layer. If nothing is selected nothing is done. 3. Info->Key Bindings->Flip Object (B) If hotkey is used, the hovered element is sent straight through the board. If menu item, a subsequent click is expected and the clicked item is sent through the board. The selection is ignored. These could and should all work the same way. How I think it should work: Like 2. above, with the additional behavior that if nothing is selected the hovered element is sent. Why I think it should work this way: They can all work the same It's efficient It can work the same way for hotkey or menu item, with just the additional behavior of 'select-hovered' for the hotkey IMO in general the menu items that lock the interface in an "expect-a-click" state to find out what to act on tend to be confusing and inefficient, and weirdly inconsistent because hotkeys never do that. For example, what is Ctrl-X (Cut to buffer) without a selection even doing, and why? The menu item and hot key for it seem to both behave in different and wrong ways when there is no selection. It also should work as I propose above. Opinions welcome, including how addicted people think they are to the existing behaviors. I believe the changes I'm talking about would be compatible with existing *efficient* habits: 1. and 2. require a pre-selection for hotkeys to work anyway, and 3. wouldn't change as far as hot key goes, but could get a sane behavior if the menu item was used. Britton