X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type;
        bh=h4dPjtItShi1/aZ529LjwUQZudecgRMwoB19c8j4AhI=;
        b=QYBnPxdtnqygwd5En34rp/TzK1ik63z2IZP8rJ2Q0SC8/jl3UnxS+Y2q8RfRoi8iP8
         VGp9eKq0PuUxIF6ah+0htOnof9xKwlDlcX7f9L3LyFl8czYSyzyWlDjsCoc4Jd3RBa/r
         4Ffu+8Mb5jxuMvTKGi5VXzzRTvtZar1rQOEtfwsbbJ3uXIGDnMw0ug4BBq8VpdY61Hfh
         5iMbjXq0WrOyTCGLZhBMAxsCD0DeEqiByMV5cd609nB7ymVrYPcLalUH8yDnQr2cx1l+
         ctvaXkBlT5HFKFfcF2MpwVc9yVdWIPsPP0Ktkh5nY1+ggmxu5kg+guhQYpragujokqL8
         2qZQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20130820;
        h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
         :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type;
        bh=h4dPjtItShi1/aZ529LjwUQZudecgRMwoB19c8j4AhI=;
        b=UfqkxDTPXPuXmcFtZ98+bkM9gAT89+bbWU6KxLQgCTXnGALIDVk359q20+yMY7e+AE
         rm7RkUUBBELCK6qnn4pDe3DT9hXwE90x97yLFAPG4l6wcoSfkiDJWIuhNQ/xA8lWr9gm
         +NQT/q7UusIa+0QymDHIMUrXSA/R8KC1ycbSNrec7kXESOoEr8+T5rZlmQKvFfimLB3K
         WL/wzg6A6C1Ns+jmEOBIbi1SWcukdT29gKxS9vqwXLDNTb/JWucgR8c5osP5IJf4Jvq5
         ICa6YqMl9UT2XCouR/dCGfeHeaQQH3ULXIW+3bLvqE+iGVYlfcrVZuQr2nozzelpNm8N
         KlAw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOTWsMAZpU8pNWYm62S5Gqcmzb+nkjnmJEw6rl48L7mcMls0sFhdQG+x+9aqShVM6kRqo5mA7Wsib5KPfA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.60.65.74 with SMTP id v10mr3949585oes.58.1454017223353; Thu,
 28 Jan 2016 13:40:23 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CADL2oCX=czxc0gJq0ZUoktNNCvBzrMOwE3g6ZP-z8EVCaaTMxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 00 DOT 1601180756390 DOT 9035 AT igor2priv>
	<201601261804 DOT u0QI4KEQ009550 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com>
	<E7D351BF-5BBB-41AC-B996-D5E27079A82C AT noqsi DOT com>
	<CAC4O8c-ZyNnCzCDHXkYYabSD4fG8vf+CKmhMycNJujGMPKzQDQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<s6nr3h49hrq DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<DDB07351-7C94-4B5C-99FA-83750CD4592A AT noqsi DOT com>
	<20160126233332 DOT dec2f06f5c74354a3841989c AT gmail DOT com>
	<s6n1t93h4ub DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<20160127091746 DOT 1c7a976c2752f913921688ac AT gmail DOT com>
	<s6npowne74w DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<20160127141334 DOT c738feb9dbeb54a7dec3dff8 AT gmail DOT com>
	<s6n37tjt1tv DOT fsf AT falbala DOT ieap DOT uni-kiel DOT de>
	<56A8F74B DOT 8080304 AT ecosensory DOT com>
	<CAC4O8c9UKLsh5FAAwUMEtHThKH-w3gUmCU2i9dRW9igkyRt-TQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<CAJZxidDmjMtd_fKvR5qZVRa+hwDUbvfaz79oZjkBgDuE1m8RBg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<56A961BC DOT 3040405 AT ecosensory DOT com>
	<CAJZxidC=nbxAinOtpfGHHqwPXbEMrhfat7jKgA9KBp3EVVg4_Q AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<s6nbn863xlu DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<56A9E416 DOT 8080500 AT ecosensory DOT com>
	<s6nfuxirm0b DOT fsf AT falbala DOT ieap DOT uni-kiel DOT de>
	<CAC4O8c9D-F3p8sAm2UumoE+uoMZM1ufSP=mNEPeHHpn8YrcSyg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<s6nmvrp31r9 DOT fsf AT blaulicht DOT dmz DOT brux>
	<CAC4O8c_EjSO7Bgk8Tk=zy2-TjkXXwAtFwgnvguuw3zGor=vh2w AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<CADL2oCX=czxc0gJq0ZUoktNNCvBzrMOwE3g6ZP-z8EVCaaTMxw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2016 22:40:23 +0100
Message-ID: <CADL2oCW34ALqEpGxu2JpBFpy14GvUda9=cExW59ZkFNWLWrfOA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] The nature of gEDA layers
From: "Nicklas Karlsson (nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1d4f2186dc2052a6bc401
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com
Precedence: bulk

--001a11c1d4f2186dc2052a6bc401
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Your example of how you see a via work perfectly well. To write which
layers are connected I also think should work perfectly well.

I however still say the drilled holes end up on at least board layers as
cut outs so in sort of they are part of the board shape, this is however
not important because it will not change how the objects are defined in
your example.

Nicklas Karlsson


2016-01-28 22:24 GMT+01:00 Nicklas Karlsson <nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com>:

> To use via/pin/pad from a predefined library and be able to update them
> would be very nice then a small adjustment is needed.
>
> Sometimes a pad need to have a little bit unusual shape and in such cases
> it is very useful with possibility to add the necessary shape on the need=
ed
> layer. For example a power pad or antenna.
>
> I am looking at clearance and maybe it is possible with a small step in
> this direction at the same time.
>
> Nicklas Karlsson
>
>
> 2016-01-28 21:46 GMT+01:00 Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Stephan B=C3=B6ttcher <geda AT psjt DOT org> =
wrote:
>> > "Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]"
>> > <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> writes:
>> >
>> >> It's highly unlikely it'll be easier for just BBVias.  I believe
>> >> there's already an experimental branch that implements them.  Igor is
>> >> likely to decide to implement them again while we all talk about it.
>> >> For containers to pay off several other applications for them would
>> >> need to exist and be important enough to get implemented.  What are
>> >> they?
>> >
>> > My use cases for a mor egeneralized data model:
>> >
>> >  - pad stacks, with differnet pad sizes on middle layers
>>
>> Everyone seems to want these, to be honest I don't understand what
>> pads on middle layers are for.  Not mounting components for sure.  If
>> it's just a node what's wrong with a trace or poly?
>>
>> >  - hierarchical layout
>>
>> It can be done now...
>>
>> >  - rigid-flex baords with more than two outer layers
>>
>> I've never done these.  I guess the flexing connector layer is on top,
>> but only where it exists so you can still have components on the layer
>> below?
>> There's still only one top layer at any given point?
>>
>> > To avoid more spagetti special casing in the future for all kinds of
>> > use cases.
>>
>> I've just been through a lot of DRC and while it's true that e.g.
>> geometrical tests could be concentrated in Union types or something,
>> they're still gonna have to go somewhere and it wasn't that bad to
>> find them as they are.  Adding abstractions that aren't universally
>> utilized doesn't necessarily make a code any more comprehensible,
>> because sometimes-utilized abstractions are arguably more confusing
>> than none at all.  To justify things like containers on
>> code-cleanliness grounds a big refactor effort is implied.
>>
>> Britton
>>
>>
>

--001a11c1d4f2186dc2052a6bc401
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Your example of how you s=
ee a via work perfectly well. To write which layers are connected I also th=
ink should work perfectly well.</span><div><br></div><div>I however still s=
ay the drilled holes end up on at least board layers as cut outs so in sort=
 of they are part of the board shape, this is however not important because=
 it will not change how the objects are defined in your example.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Nicklas Karlsson</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-01-28 22:24 GMT+01:00 Nicklas=
 Karlsson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">nicklas DOT karlsson17 AT gmail DOT com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>To use via/pin/pad from a =
predefined library and be able to update them would be very nice then a sma=
ll adjustment is needed.</div><div><br></div><div>Sometimes a pad need to h=
ave a little bit unusual shape and in such cases it is very useful with pos=
sibility to add the necessary shape on the needed layer. For example a powe=
r pad or antenna.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I am looking at clearance an=
d maybe it is possible with a small step in this direction at the same time=
.</div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div>N=
icklas Karlsson</div><div><br></div></font></span></div><div class=3D"HOEnZ=
b"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2016-01-28 21:46 GMT+01:00 Britton Kerin (<a href=3D"mailto:britton.ker=
in AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=
=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</=
a>] <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><span>On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:08 AM, Stephan B=C3=B6ttcher &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:geda AT psjt DOT org" target=3D"_blank">geda AT psjt DOT org</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br>
&gt; &quot;Britton Kerin (<a href=3D"mailto:britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com" target=
=3D"_blank">britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT d=
elorie.com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>]&quot;<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-us=
er AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt; writes:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; It&#39;s highly unlikely it&#39;ll be easier for just BBVias.=C2=
=A0 I believe<br>
&gt;&gt; there&#39;s already an experimental branch that implements them.=
=C2=A0 Igor is<br>
&gt;&gt; likely to decide to implement them again while we all talk about i=
t.<br>
&gt;&gt; For containers to pay off several other applications for them woul=
d<br>
&gt;&gt; need to exist and be important enough to get implemented.=C2=A0 Wh=
at are<br>
&gt;&gt; they?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; My use cases for a mor egeneralized data model:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 - pad stacks, with differnet pad sizes on middle layers<br>
<br>
</span>Everyone seems to want these, to be honest I don&#39;t understand wh=
at<br>
pads on middle layers are for.=C2=A0 Not mounting components for sure.=C2=
=A0 If<br>
it&#39;s just a node what&#39;s wrong with a trace or poly?<br>
<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 - hierarchical layout<br>
<br>
It can be done now...<br>
<span><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 - rigid-flex baords with more than two outer layers<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;ve never done these.=C2=A0 I guess the flexing connector layer=
 is on top,<br>
but only where it exists so you can still have components on the layer<br>
below?<br>
There&#39;s still only one top layer at any given point?<br>
<span><br>
&gt; To avoid more spagetti special casing in the future for all kinds of<b=
r>
&gt; use cases.<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;ve just been through a lot of DRC and while it&#39;s true that=
 e.g.<br>
geometrical tests could be concentrated in Union types or something,<br>
they&#39;re still gonna have to go somewhere and it wasn&#39;t that bad to<=
br>
find them as they are.=C2=A0 Adding abstractions that aren&#39;t universall=
y<br>
utilized doesn&#39;t necessarily make a code any more comprehensible,<br>
because sometimes-utilized abstractions are arguably more confusing<br>
than none at all.=C2=A0 To justify things like containers on<br>
code-cleanliness grounds a big refactor effort is implied.<br>
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Britton<br>
<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a11c1d4f2186dc2052a6bc401--