X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-TCPREMOTEIP: 207.224.51.38 X-Authenticated-UID: jpd AT noqsi DOT com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3EF14EB4-B8C1-4383-9B26-B261F1580307"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [geda-user] A fileformat library X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: John Doty In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 20:07:41 -0700 Message-Id: References: <1512221837 DOT AA25291 AT ivan DOT Harhan DOT ORG>

<20151222232230 DOT 12633 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se> <0F6F1D0F-4F07-48EA-90FE-836EAD4E2354 AT noqsi DOT com> <0FCF3774-F93C-4BFF-BB61-636F75DCCACB AT noqsi DOT com>

To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail=_3EF14EB4-B8C1-4383-9B26-B261F1580307 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3369C536-8C29-4AFC-92DB-78CA802B3476" --Apple-Mail=_3369C536-8C29-4AFC-92DB-78CA802B3476 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Jan 2, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via = geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:38 PM, John Doty wrote: >=20 > On Jan 2, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >=20 >> Personally I find formats like this: >>=20 >> device=3DRESISTOR >> T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 1 >>=20 >> substantially less readable than ones with field names, but they are = indeed easy to parse. >=20 > Personally, I rarely edit these things manually except for the text = fields, which are not difficult to find. The fact that they=92re easy to = parse is handy for automation. >=20 >> The pcb format is quite a bit more elaborate and the savings from = not rolling your own parser are more significant. >>=20 >> I think you're criteria for what should go in libgeda are spot-on = btw. Nor do I have any problem with a C interface calling python or = gschem or for that matter C++. I do think providing a clean C interface = to libgeda gets by far the best return on investment, since it's so = widely known and with a little care wrappers can then be provided almost = automatically for a wide variety of languages (via SWIG or some other = similar mechanism -- or maybe Xorn facilitates this, I'm a little = unclear). >=20 > I don=92t find deconstructing C data structures particularly easier = than parsing the format above. Just another layer I have to penetrate to = get to the data. I do significant processing with simple things like = sed, which don=92t handle binary data. >=20 > Wrappers CAN be provided, but will they? FFI programming is not the = easiest thing. I hear complaints about the need for developers to = maintain code. It seems to me that one way to address these concerns is = to avoid and eliminate unnecessary code. >=20 > Good question. It's a great result if you get it but a lot more work = than using a serialization library, which is why the latter approach = seems to me like a useful step in the right direction. Serialization library? Why do you want a extra, unnecessary, opaque = interface? What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? >=20 > Britton John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ jpd AT noqsi DOT com --Apple-Mail=_3369C536-8C29-4AFC-92DB-78CA802B3476 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

On Jan 2, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Britton = Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] = <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>= wrote:

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:38 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

On Jan 2, 2016, at 6:07 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> = wrote:

Personally I find formats like this:

= device=3DRESISTOR
T 44400 49300 5 10 1 1 90 0 = 1

substantially less readable than ones with field names, but = they are indeed easy to = parse.

Personally, I rarely edit = these things manually except for the text fields, which are not = difficult to find. The fact that they=92re easy to parse is handy for = automation.

The pcb format is quite a bit more elaborate and the = savings from not rolling your own parser are more = significant.

I think you're criteria for what should go in libgeda are = spot-on btw. Nor do I have any problem with a C interface calling = python or gschem or for that matter C++. I do think providing a = clean C interface to libgeda gets by far the best return on investment, = since it's so widely known and with a little care wrappers can then be = provided almost automatically for a wide variety of languages (via SWIG = or some other similar mechanism -- or maybe Xorn facilitates this, I'm a = little unclear).

I don=92t find = deconstructing C data structures particularly easier than parsing the = format above. Just another layer I have to penetrate to get to the data. = I do significant processing with simple things like sed, which don=92t = handle binary data.

Wrappers CAN be provided, = but will they? FFI programming is not the easiest thing. I hear = complaints about the need for developers to maintain code. It = seems to me that one way to address these concerns is to avoid and = eliminate unnecessary code.

Good question. It's a great result if you get it but a = lot more work than using a serialization library, which is why the = latter approach seems to me like a useful step in the right = direction.

Serializatio= n library? Why do you want a extra, unnecessary, opaque interface? What, = exactly, are you trying to accomplish?

Britton

John Doty Noqsi = Aerospace, Ltd.

http://www.noqsi.com/

jpd AT noqsi DOT com

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