X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=H+MUXgNvBUQ+uK98pnVf16mrW3Y9qjLUYWmSJ22uqw4=; b=0OXJA98qnSMo1sFkg5gQIU20uxTKvu0vP+ggK71laFVtdQEv1SVuQxdn0E8WyLP99J uI2JzclJ+kBUw8+EeXQTge7C9W9CU2thKTd/TMJXHEeEKZ9SF2TsL5hrsO1VrVzCv2v9 gYIwx23NLXkJNKdXUGk0oG1AVlqszduLLIoeeevbxV1Ga3/6k+blphYlJ0LEc98u1T6e 3E5ykIWTj9dQhG4uj/ja8QqN1RN26G0v0bykprPE0L0fzz9b+HJHkC5x0/WYkKazzOx+ txre4A45dXaHD2wc0b1qSRJfeznsO/m3ZTcagSJQ89rLzJrlGIcw/iN/7//2jJdYPaQm PhVA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.157.133 with SMTP id wm5mr14693814lbb.7.1451610849791; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 17:14:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20151231021438.0FA26809D79D@turkos.aspodata.se> References: <5683FC1D DOT 4060006 AT ecosensory DOT com> <20151231021438 DOT 0FA26809D79D AT turkos DOT aspodata DOT se> Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 01:14:09 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: gEDA and it's future with Scheme & Guile was Re: [geda-user] Project leadership From: "Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: gEDA users mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by delorie.com id u011EEoh021420 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 2:14 AM, wrote: > John Griessen: >> On 12/30/2015 03:35 AM, Richard Hughes (hughsient AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >> > So, you're looking for the 0.01% of people crazy enough to do PCB >> > design, of which 0.1% of which will know the difference between free >> > software and shareware, of which 0.1% also knows a pretty esoteric >> > language >> >> Even though scheme is naturally good for big lists of data, other high level languages like python are also, >> and the popularity guesses above are probably not more than 10X off. >> >> Even just 1% * 1% * 1% is 1 in a million people, >> so it really does limit contributions. >> >> If there are several more lurkers like Richard Hughes that I cannot recall seeing post here before, >> maybe the fastest way forward is a base up rewrite in python, starting with Roland's xorn, >> with as little C as possible for performance reasons only, >> 8and with existing code maintained for a good while so comparison testing can be done. >> PCB is a repository of tons of layout knowledge -- you would keep it around and use in parallel >> for a couple of years to be sure you had all features implemented, none forgotten. gschem is not as many little rules, >> so it might transition sooner than 2 years. With python and a plugin system of code, from a bottom-up and >> top-down design and rewrite, I might even contribute. It seems like quicksand as is, so I cannot afford the time to. > > If I'd choose, I'd have libgeda in c only, because that what I > know best. That sounds good until you see how hard it is to manipulate some things in C. > That said, I'm somewhat surprised about the "we don't want scheme" > emphasis expressed in this mailing list. I am not advocating that. I feel like when ever I bring this up people inflate it to that. > Look at a in some ways similar project: http://www.lilypond.org/ > They use c/c++/python/scheme with scripting in scheme only, and they > are successful at it. > > 1, So first point is: even if I'm not at ease with with or like > scheme, I do see that one can make great things with it. > > 2. Their users are not programmers, they are musicians and the like. > Why can they use scheme to such a great extent without any complaint > whatsoever, and not I (even though I "know how to program") ? > > 3, the experience of lilypond devs is that c/c++ is much harder to use > than scheme, and I get a impression that if they would start over > they would skip the c++ part in favour of scheme. > > /// > > So looking at libgeda, does it really matter what language it is > written in (since most of you would not touch that code at all), > isn't the problem that you are missing a binding to "your" language ? > > And speaking of binding, is it good to have binding to mult. languages > or is it better to focus on a single scripting language ? > > Lilypond gains strenght by not having mult. bindings, every script is > in the same language. > > If I'd write libgeda, I'd use c and scripting in perl - but I know > that that wouldn't suit everybody, or would all of you be fine with > that ? > > Somehow this comes to my mind: > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990319.html > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990320.html > > and why not: > http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99mar/19990325.html > > Regards, > /Karl Hammar > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Aspö Data > Lilla Aspö 148 > S-742 94 Östhammar > Sweden > +46 173 140 57 > > -- Home http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ Work http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/ -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQENBFYy4RYBCAC183JomLtbdAlcKiaPDoVHq52LDmVmH75aiEc69m7YxDt54/ai VtYCAobbGVIyn3Hlz3uhF6LnPl/6Lm1VdnCfpwu3KQhCO6ds10ow2C30X4ohCqOd hCVg5C+ILmQkEffFrFODy3ji+PYTF4pADvHCWsTMv0hf0llwFOJsBCK6cl02IffE JPqy4PjM1nZ9HpzT84JBaG/4OGvTZ8SQ2yFUl265jagvygPTf88H1xpZHH1r8dB1 stjUHLmPH8AOyDgKxFchgGeDc3p/vJtgDDIXAFfDXG0NSRovLmtaQdGxe47Zf/go bXiEM7YL2WqQe5zfEA919JxkEwlDKYniOSVzABEBAAG0N0V2YW4gRm9zcyAoVGhp cyBpcyBteSBwdWJsaWMga2V5LikgPGV2YW5mb3NzQGdtYWlsLmNvbT6JATkEEwEC ACMFAlYy4RYCGwMHCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCIpQTcE8nN bbBaCACAm8pU5lG1ev2Fsw68Axtcl57SJrYieqX96c3YuYH9JpqMqJRnd9nDKw9X tQuvuH7tUk0VbOaDqReOYJVI/4c5wb9AaOFp6K2DUcupq6XhgXpvz3HzoPwjAdIj XuQzdRUx5+innTJrSkGuBYW/CZ2zqEx4xfLlq4rO0hoTUMR8QVp2cCrkw6BT0m86 APIw/ZnjoxM8IEzr7MxfRIg3qpzrZk28rmhx+k78Jyk61UhwcCPGIm/pjUopTwYJ 3YBdRB2cYD2aN7A1JVf5cRmSQYooHBGpH0kYvomGk97PKqypVuJ7OpG9xM58wUcC qUVt9hKlePLzP8csYjt8onqI7qIIuQENBFYy4RYBCADlH8spG3WkCx62vB5mr5Z0 SCDd/RcyA4A5y5EOj5KurQkrSWpgi9Ho1yKruMJ6blQR2qkc66KqH9pnXDm/ZI1M K/wdW3ngETxBmXoozzFMT89aEWIVR5/PFodWK1elekE9iJxACuR98Zg2QttTD3x8 A9w8VEyMLOXcDTrPFpHegMKswFBg5iuMulAdXAoGejWTI3n+qKFpabHm2Lfs6wjk 5rjucpTdeFK6UeWF1xAvNxXibuu5BlGwv53930qIXRwO/Gn2Rh5DXWxKU2fEIme/ xgQQmIsDeUoWbfybdjw/x7Q0LW4mINiLDQcGHHRQKFIxbAJCT3USPLGh5xwE9/Er ABEBAAGJAR8EGAECAAkFAlYy4RYCGwwACgkQiKUE3BPJzW0uYAf9Hf30n8tM3mR2 Zo6ESE0ivgdgjaJtAWrBUx7JzAzPjBnBOlNnu5Y9lVEqetvUPH6e3PvaHYUuaUU8 0HwxuKBW9nUprgV6uIu1DZmlcp+SxpbuCy7RDpNocRLNWWFMaYYzznmTgfnTgD4D gCq8Mf1mcfrluTkOAo+QNqbMfl1GISClopRqxVuAo59ewgMnFujwgd8w12BwWl24 CzqOs5HqcUslePj+LzcjSNgVCklYwKl+0dsb/fctMOCtHodwqm2CBJ+zydvNmYkD fxda/J91Z1xrah5ec++FL0L4vs+jCiIWJeupJFKlr1hCMZiiGH7W554loK5l4jv3 EY347EidAw== =Ta4p -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----