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Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 09:40:52 +0100
From: "Bert Timmerman (bert DOT timmerman AT xs4all DOT nl) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Subject: Re: gEDA and it's future with Scheme & Guile was Re: [geda-user]
 Project leadership
References: <CAM2RGhS4L-ch6FEcLtdSt0vA0BdQZvq+AuFDP+9ea7Ftd=AALg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <20151229212943 DOT 2d486c8c AT wind DOT levalinux DOT org> <322D36D8-DAB6-4117-B22B-8FF515B00D2B AT noqsi DOT com> <CAGde_xM1-o6KY0FKjWjSKqWBR9AWfQwTcgPHnF1x+DwtOSfr5Q AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <A7F1517D-2CC3-4320-827B-47FE63FF68E6 AT noqsi DOT com> <CAGde_xMGjmMF6Akih8=3dsciD1W5HPH8LxROjZGyj7x_hvkRww AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <AEB47F19-1F72-48B3-95F1-964429F92491 AT noqsi DOT com> <alpine DOT DEB DOT 2 DOT 00 DOT 1512300542260 DOT 9035 AT igor2priv>
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Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com

gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2015, John Doty wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2015, at 5:24 PM, Svenn Are Bjerkem 
>> (svenn DOT bjerkem AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] 
>> <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 December 2015 at 00:58, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>>>> Okay, I get excoriated when I ask that developers leave working 
>>>> code alone. Now I?m excoriated for suggesting the sort of positive 
>>>> contribution somebody who wants to write code could make.
>>>
>>> Your positivism is only brought to town when it fits your agenda.
>>
>> Am I not entitled, as a user, to want progress without having to give 
>> up what already works well?
>
> Your current agenda:
>
> 1. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING IN GEDA.
> 2. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING IN GEDA.
> 3. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING IN GEDA.
> 4. DO NOT CHANGE ANYTHING IN GEDA.
> 5. proress can only made by writing other programs
>
> Solution: fork (or just save a copy of) geda today. Stop caring how 
> others change their copy. Will save everyone a lot of time.
>
>
Hi John and all,

The *real* challenge is that even if you did do a fork, the rest of the 
world around *your* geda-gaf fork will change.

Changes like gtk2 --> gtk3, guile finally getting nuked, the last scheme 
programmer dies, OS updates all libraries, the i*86 infrastructure dies, 
etc. etc.

You could always fork these too and try to freeze them on the time line.

So it will probably become a struggle to follow pace.

The change from gtk2 --> gtk3 (or gtk4, or any other gui) will lead to 
radical changes in gschem (hope we will not break stuff like pcb did 
with the "nm" change).


What we developers need to implement (in Launchpad ?) is a robust system 
for "Management of Change" (MoC) to take away any fears of breaking 
stuff and workflows.

This means a better control of *our* developer workflow (that is, from 
the programmers perspective) ... please do not rant over this one as a 
change in *your* user workflows ;-)

This means things like organizing "second pairs of eyes", and not just 
any pair of eyes: they need to have the ability to review and scrutenize 
code without hesitation (tap programmers on fingers).

I'm sure *you* could do that.


The changes in pcb code base for yet another GUI will be minimal --> 
*radical flexibility*.

The changes in pcb code base for yet another plug-in or feature will be 
minimal --> *radical flexibility*.

Count your blessings.

Kind regards and the best for 2016,

Bert Timmerman.