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Subject: Re: gEDA and it's future with Scheme & Guile was Re: [geda-user] Project leadership
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From: John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com>
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Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2015 00:06:44 -0700
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On Dec 29, 2015, at 10:55 PM, gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:

>=20
>=20
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2015, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via =
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote:
>=20
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 5:14 AM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> On Dec 29, 2015, at 9:54 PM, gedau AT igor2 DOT repo DOT hu wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> After actually hacing gschem, I realized your idealistic view on =
how good the foundations are is just a dream.
>>>=20
>>> It?s not perfect but that isn?t a reason to make it worse. It?s =
pretty good compared to a lot of software.
>>=20
>> Igor2 why are we doing this? Suppose for a minute we somehow got John
>> to concede defeat what would we really have won here?
>=20
> I really think there are some basic concepts went wrong in geda/gschem =
(about networks, how much gschem should know about attributes and flows, =
whether gschem->gnetlist should be unidirectional).

There are text editors that have no knowledge of anything but =
characters. There are text editors that profound knowledge of language =
(either formal or natural). In nether case is the design wrong.

>=20
> I really believe that one day these should be talked over. By those =
who understand how the whole thing works and are capable of making the =
necessary modifications.

Or more reasonably, writing a different tool. What you want is not =
wrong, but it is false to the nature of what we have. What we have is =
not wrong either, but it doesn=92t fit what you want.

>=20
> I think this can not happen as long as John loudly blocks any attempt =
in this direction.

How am I blocking anything? Am I reaching into your computer and erasing =
your code?

> I don't say it will happen instantly if John stopped this, but I am =
pretty sure it won't until that. It's just that any attempt on any =
useful discussion on this rapidly sinks into the "toolkit vs. =
integrated" agenda pushed by him and people lose interest.
>=20
> I think the way forward is to convince John to make a fork.

I=92m happy with the direction Vladimir is going, and he seems to be in =
charge. Furthermore, I collaborate with people: maintaining my own fork =
would be a large burden. The packagers who make our releases generally =
available are unsung heroes in my book.

> This would relieve him from having to watch for change proposals on =
the mailing list and would relieve potential programmers from the noise =
and derailed threads. (I'm still laughing at that he takes even =
pcb-related ideas as direct threat to gschem.)

Because I perceive incomprehension and hostility to the paradigm that =
has made geda-gaf so powerful and flexible from the pcb side of the =
project.

John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com



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