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Subject: Re: [geda-user] A fileformat library
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From: John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com>
In-Reply-To: <CAM2RGhTficnys3a4xs=UBFvk8aPwpzYWUADFLP_pUQ+R1iKs0g@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 22:23:54 -0700
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On Dec 22, 2015, at 9:31 PM, Evan Foss (evanfoss AT gmail DOT com) [via =
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:47 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:
>>=20
>> On Dec 22, 2015, at 4:22 PM, Peter Stuge (peter AT stuge DOT se) [via =
geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>>=20
>>> John Doty wrote:
>>>>> Bonus points for PCB using the core-library too, so it can "give =
up"
>>>>> its one preferred on-disk netlist format, and read any useful ones =
we
>>>>> care to implement a reader for in the core EDA library.
>>>>=20
>>>> I=92m quite skeptical of a core library. An agreed-upon external =
data
>>>> representation is handy, but tool writers will want their own
>>>> internal representations in their own languages for their own =
problems.
>>>=20
>>> The purpose of a core library is to take care of the lower-level
>>> things required to deal with the external data representation.
>>=20
>> I=92d prefer to make the external representation transparent.
>>=20
>>>=20
>>> It is key for a core library to make all available data easily =
usable
>>> for tool writers, not to enforce a particular internal =
representation.
>>=20
>> But of course, it will use a particular representation. A core =
library for C++ isn=92t going to be useful to an AWK programmer.
>>=20
>> One thing that=92s nice about our .sch format is that it is easy to =
read and write from pretty much any language. There=92s no need for any =
extra layer.
>=20
> Yes but with an extra layer more people can play with files made in
> PCB.

I was speaking of geda-gaf.

> Why force them to write and maintain a whole second library to
> handle our file format? Look at the number of utilities that people
> have written to create footprints and things via their own file
> parsing code. That is a lot of duplicated effort that will be broken
> when we revise the format.

But you need *many* parsers to serve our modern Babel of programming =
languages. If you insist that people go through an API that isn=92t in =
their favorite language that=92s a much bigger barrier than the lack of =
a common parser. Even if the API is in the right language, its data =
structures may need translation. Parsing is not usually hard. Dealing =
with an API ill suited to your problem is often harder.

Of course, a specialized thing like the gnetlist front end can make =
certain problems much easier to solve by presenting you with exactly =
what you need.

> I know you don't use it but I do and I can
> tell you there are things we need the format to represent that it just
> can not right now.

Except that you=92ll have to revise the parser API if you change what =
the format can represent. If you make a change, you have to change every =
layer it affects, so extra layers make that harder. It doesn=92t really =
help to hide the format behind an API unless you don=92t intend to =
expose the changes. But then, why would you make a change?


>>=20
>>>=20
>>> I expect different tools to use the same core library to do =
different
>>> things and to use the data provided by the core library in different
>>> ways.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> //Peter
>>=20
>> John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
>> http://www.noqsi.com/
>> jpd AT noqsi DOT com
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> --
> Home
> http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/
> Work
> http://forge.abcd.harvard.edu/gf/project/epl_engineering/wiki/
>=20
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John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
http://www.noqsi.com/
jpd AT noqsi DOT com



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