X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-TCPREMOTEIP: 207.224.51.38 X-Authenticated-UID: jpd AT noqsi DOT com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F29903F8-4AFF-4E15-87A9-983CE8C57228"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) Subject: Re: [geda-user] Project leadership X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: John Doty In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 20:17:54 -0700 Message-Id: References: <5AC3D5C5-144F-41AE-9562-47BC34D9047F AT noqsi DOT com>

<20151222193859 DOT 26898 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se> <20151222224539 DOT 824d0603398b862d574e1ab4 AT gmail DOT com> <20151222222341 DOT 8107 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se>

<9E19D617-6F76-4D24-8C60-4A4B15BA5952 AT noqsi DOT com> To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk --Apple-Mail=_F29903F8-4AFF-4E15-87A9-983CE8C57228 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AA262CC0-89E4-4CA3-8449-C2EED968E2D6" --Apple-Mail=_AA262CC0-89E4-4CA3-8449-C2EED968E2D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:46 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:25 PM, John Doty wrote: >=20 > On Dec 22, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: >> As for refusing code because it doesn't fit the vision, gEDA isn't in = a good position to do this. > Geda-gaf is in an excellent position to do this. It=92s mature, = effective, and flexible. It could be better, but making it better = requires discipline more than lines of code. It=92s *hard* to make good = code better: it=92s much easier to make it worse. >=20 > But they aren't modifying it with the intention of making it worse, The universe does not care about intentions. > and on the average there's no real reason to assume the "leader" is = going to be a better judge than the contributor, especially on the issue = the contributor is trying to address. All FOSS works essentially on = this principle. If you don't like it perhaps FOSS isn't for you. There are some very stable FOSS products. Python 3 developers are = unhappy that Python 2.7 is defacto the eternal version. That=92s their = problem. One of the reasons that gEDA was so attractive to an old Viewlogic user = like me was its stability. In Viewlogic, there was constant feature = churn, together with a constant addition of novel bugs. The sales = department always wants NEW! But we don=92t have a sales department, so = we don=92t have to change things that don=92t need changing. >> It makes devels quit and there aren't that many to begin with. >=20 > On the other hand, pcb suffers from a lack of discipline. I find it an = unusable conceptual tangle. The problem is not a lack of developers, but = the lack of a vision. To the user, it=92s just a random grab bag of = features. >=20 > But because you don't use it, nobody takes your opinions about it = seriously. You don=92t. I know that some others do. If you want to attract more = users, it might make sense to pay attention to the reasons that people = don=92t use it. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ jpd AT noqsi DOT com --Apple-Mail=_AA262CC0-89E4-4CA3-8449-C2EED968E2D6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252

On Dec 22, 2015, at 7:46 PM, Britton = Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) = [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] = <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>= wrote:

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:25 PM, John Doty <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

On Dec 22, 2015, at 6:48 = PM, Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
As for refusing code = because it doesn't fit the vision, gEDA isn't in a good position to do = this.
Geda-gaf is in an excellent position to do = this. It=92s mature, effective, and flexible. It could be better, but = making it better requires discipline more than lines of code. It=92s = *hard* to make good code better: it=92s much easier to make it = worse.

But they = aren't modifying it with the intention of making it = worse,

The universe = does not care about intentions.

and on the average there's no = real reason to assume the "leader" is going to be a better judge than = the contributor, especially on the issue the contributor is trying to = address. All FOSS works essentially on this principle. If = you don't like it perhaps FOSS isn't for = you.

There are some = very stable FOSS products. Python 3 developers are unhappy that Python = 2.7 is defacto the eternal version. That=92s their = problem.

One of the reasons that gEDA was so = attractive to an old Viewlogic user like me was its stability. In = Viewlogic, there was constant feature churn, together with a constant = addition of novel bugs. The sales department always wants NEW! But we = don=92t have a sales department, so we don=92t have to change things = that don=92t need changing.

It makes devels = quit and there aren't that many to begin = with.
On the other hand, pcb suffers from = a lack of discipline. I find it an unusable conceptual tangle. The = problem is not a lack of developers, but the lack of a vision. To the = user, it=92s just a random grab bag of = features.

But = because you don't use it, nobody takes your opinions about it = seriously.

You don=92t.= I know that some others do. If you want to attract more users, it might = make sense to pay attention to the reasons that people don=92t use = it.

John Doty Noqsi = Aerospace, Ltd.

http://www.noqsi.com/

jpd AT noqsi DOT com

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