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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2015 15:30:41 -0900
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Subject: Re: [geda-user] Proposing a New Hierarchical Data Structure?
From: "Britton Kerin (britton DOT kerin AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
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On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Peter Clifton (
petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] <
geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

> > Seconded.  STEP its a huge pain in the behind because no free software
> > supports it.  I had to have a copy of solid works on windows for nothing
> but
> > export to STEP, so I could have parts designed with openSCAD actually
> > manufactured.  That was a while ago and now 3D printing has forced
> > manufacturers to support STL.  With that happening I doubt very much that
> > FOSS support for STEP has improved much.  In any case *something* is
> > definitely stopping STEP adoption in FOSS and it's a good bet its the
> > relative unavailability of the standard.
>
> Opencascade probably counts as FOSS now (even if it is tied to LGPL2
> only - no later). FreeCAD uses it as the kernel, and can import /
> export STEP.
>
> So - question becomes, can you get openSCAD into Opencascade /
> FreeCAD? (I have a vague recollection there was an add-in module for
>

I don't know now.  I did try FreeCAD at the time (7+ years ago) and
couldn't get it to work.


> the later).
> I'm curious - how do you get it into Solidworks?
>

Imported STL

Even with the likes of OpenSCAD and FreeCAD, I'd argue that there is
> no real 3D CAD competition in the FOSS world, not when compared to the
> likes of Solidworks. Sure, some things will be possible - with a bit
> of effort, but we're probably gaining ground on FOSS 3D CAD even
> slower than FOSS EDA tools (at least the later could be considered
> feature-complete, and on parity with a sub-set of the commercial EDA
> spectrum).
>

Mostly agree, though openscad picked up a lot of steam since I last used it
and it was pretty nice then.  For engineering work I like openscad approach
way better than GUI anyway (pretty plastic contours are another matter,
though I've used blender pretty happily for those).


> STEP is the easy bit - (compared to the 3D kernel stuff). That is not
> understate how much of a pain STEP can be! - I'm just not sure it is
> possible to _overstate_ how nasty 3D kernels are.
>

Agreed.  All the talk of casually turning pcb into a 3D app kind of shocks
me.


> (Look at all the problems we have getting polygon boolean algebra
> right... with two linear, 2D primitives... extend to 3D, with arcs,
> lines, parametric-curves, splines, .... potentially in 3D spaces, not
> just planar - and you start to get a small hint of the scale of the
> engineering and mathematical problem).
>

Yep.  Considering that pcb covers most needs now, going 3D to get the last
few seems like a really questionable decision compared to making specific
inter-layer extensions to handle them.

Britton

--001a114242a4ff0cf2052785d436
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Peter Clifton (<a href=3D"mailto:pete=
rcjclifton AT googlemail DOT com">petercjclifton AT googlemail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=
=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com">geda-user AT delorie DOT com</a>] <span dir=3D"l=
tr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-use=
r AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">&gt; =
Seconded.=C2=A0 STEP its a huge pain in the behind because no free software=
<br>
&gt; supports it.=C2=A0 I had to have a copy of solid works on windows for =
nothing but<br>
&gt; export to STEP, so I could have parts designed with openSCAD actually<=
br>
&gt; manufactured.=C2=A0 That was a while ago and now 3D printing has force=
d<br>
&gt; manufacturers to support STL.=C2=A0 With that happening I doubt very m=
uch that<br>
&gt; FOSS support for STEP has improved much.=C2=A0 In any case *something*=
 is<br>
&gt; definitely stopping STEP adoption in FOSS and it&#39;s a good bet its =
the<br>
&gt; relative unavailability of the standard.<br>
<br>
Opencascade probably counts as FOSS now (even if it is tied to LGPL2<br>
only - no later). FreeCAD uses it as the kernel, and can import /<br>
export STEP.<br>
<br>
So - question becomes, can you get openSCAD into Opencascade /<br>
FreeCAD? (I have a vague recollection there was an add-in module for<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">I don&#39;t know now.=C2=A0 I did =
try FreeCAD at the time (7+ years ago) and couldn&#39;t get it to work.</di=
v><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the later).<br>
I&#39;m curious - how do you get it into Solidworks?<br></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div style=3D"">Imported STL</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
Even with the likes of OpenSCAD and FreeCAD, I&#39;d argue that there is<br=
>
no real 3D CAD competition in the FOSS world, not when compared to the<br>
likes of Solidworks. Sure, some things will be possible - with a bit<br>
of effort, but we&#39;re probably gaining ground on FOSS 3D CAD even<br>
slower than FOSS EDA tools (at least the later could be considered<br>
feature-complete, and on parity with a sub-set of the commercial EDA<br>
spectrum).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style=3D"">Mostly agree, tho=
ugh openscad picked up a lot of steam since I last used it and it was prett=
y nice then.=C2=A0 For engineering work I like openscad approach way better=
 than GUI anyway (pretty plastic contours are another matter, though I&#39;=
ve used blender pretty happily for those).</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquot=
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex">
STEP is the easy bit - (compared to the 3D kernel stuff). That is not<br>
understate how much of a pain STEP can be! - I&#39;m just not sure it is<br=
>
possible to _overstate_ how nasty 3D kernels are.<br></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div style=3D"">Agreed.=C2=A0 All the talk of casually turning pcb in=
to a 3D app kind of shocks me.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
(Look at all the problems we have getting polygon boolean algebra<br>
right... with two linear, 2D primitives... extend to 3D, with arcs,<br>
lines, parametric-curves, splines, .... potentially in 3D spaces, not<br>
just planar - and you start to get a small hint of the scale of the<br>
engineering and mathematical problem).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div =
style=3D"">Yep.=C2=A0 Considering that pcb covers most needs now, going 3D =
to get the last few seems like a really questionable decision compared to m=
aking specific inter-layer extensions to handle them.</div><div>=C2=A0</div=
><div style=3D"">Britton</div></div></div></div>

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