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Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 01:45:51 -0400
Message-ID: <CA+uY=MTJyj5o2+OnPuzHn9ubeR-C2Jcg7PdW1ThDxV_S_EmTnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Stop playing stupid political games with gEDA
From: "Russell Nelson (russnelson AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
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Back when packet drivers were a thing, I had three mailing lists:
-announce, -users and -developers. In order to be on the -developers
mailing list, you had to have contributed materially to the project. "Oh,
thanks. Can I add you to the -developers mailing list?"

On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 1:36 AM, DJ Delorie <dj AT delorie DOT com> wrote:

>
> > I disagree with the developer mailing list being separate. In my
> > perception, this separation creates second class citizens.
>
> We used to have just one list.  The non-devs wanted the dev talk moved.
>
> We switched to an open dev list.  It was abused by non-devs.
>
> We switched to a closed dev list.  The non-devs complained.
>
> After a while, we had no devs.
>
> Now we have one list (geda-user) for general discussion, and we happen
> to have a few other mailing lists that generally have no discussion on
> them yet seem to be a hot spot for everyone who isn't on them.
>
> You refer to "the developer mailing list" as if it's some magic land
> where everything wonderful happens, but in reality it's just a list of
> people with git commit privs.
>
> We can't win.
>
> Just because the project is open source does not mean that everyone
> has a right to be on every mailing list.  There are some topics that
> are too trivial to warrant scrutiny (minor server issues) and some
> that should not be public for privacy issues ("people problems").
>
> As for "second class citizens" it's unfortunate that you look at it
> that way, it's a negative view, that someone who has acheived a goal
> somehow diminishes all others.  Certainly in any project there are
> ranks of participants, ranging from admins down to the uninterested.
> That most of the planet's population aren't admins doesn't make them
> "second class" - it just means if they wish to be admins, they have
> yet to earn it.  Likewise for those who aren't developers, those who
> aren't users, those who don't use computers, etc...
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Back when packet drivers were a thing, I had three mailing=
 lists: -announce, -users and -developers. In order to be on the -developer=
s mailing list, you had to have contributed materially to the project. &quo=
t;Oh, thanks. Can I add you to the -developers mailing list?&quot;</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 =
at 1:36 AM, DJ Delorie <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dj AT delorie DOT c=
om" target=3D"_blank">dj AT delorie DOT com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;=
padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D""><br>
&gt; I disagree with the developer mailing list being separate. In my<br>
&gt; perception, this separation creates second class citizens.<br>
<br>
</span>We used to have just one list.=C2=A0 The non-devs wanted the dev tal=
k moved.<br>
<br>
We switched to an open dev list.=C2=A0 It was abused by non-devs.<br>
<br>
We switched to a closed dev list.=C2=A0 The non-devs complained.<br>
<br>
After a while, we had no devs.<br>
<br>
Now we have one list (geda-user) for general discussion, and we happen<br>
to have a few other mailing lists that generally have no discussion on<br>
them yet seem to be a hot spot for everyone who isn&#39;t on them.<br>
<br>
You refer to &quot;the developer mailing list&quot; as if it&#39;s some mag=
ic land<br>
where everything wonderful happens, but in reality it&#39;s just a list of<=
br>
people with git commit privs.<br>
<br>
We can&#39;t win.<br>
<br>
Just because the project is open source does not mean that everyone<br>
has a right to be on every mailing list.=C2=A0 There are some topics that<b=
r>
are too trivial to warrant scrutiny (minor server issues) and some<br>
that should not be public for privacy issues (&quot;people problems&quot;).=
<br>
<br>
As for &quot;second class citizens&quot; it&#39;s unfortunate that you look=
 at it<br>
that way, it&#39;s a negative view, that someone who has acheived a goal<br=
>
somehow diminishes all others.=C2=A0 Certainly in any project there are<br>
ranks of participants, ranging from admins down to the uninterested.<br>
That most of the planet&#39;s population aren&#39;t admins doesn&#39;t make=
 them<br>
&quot;second class&quot; - it just means if they wish to be admins, they ha=
ve<br>
yet to earn it.=C2=A0 Likewise for those who aren&#39;t developers, those w=
ho<br>
aren&#39;t users, those who don&#39;t use computers, etc...<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>

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