X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=hIcQ+5ZlXLMhlE7ztcpvEVBXo2X9yR93CSuvEUkxC2U=; b=R+heG30arnUZMyywGyZ/Jrig+DIlkK+coTYZNdBN+45dBQ50LiGPX4UdMpmKpznqfn 5/+x9JZu9OKzEFLxAudNxI5Nyr9OIB+U7VQ3eW/Wjb+/D8jbAvDlJ7Pq9VLsNzPwSr+8 bVwdW3FvethcapZbW2wrEoOzVmzB/bFF3A1jVFDbOXx0sVN+apMq3P7gP6PsNwjWZFqJ VnorFGNAy9eOwcBuEFijaiQ/RePdbT1nNnAPYQbqwlY+UqhAsYAv/TgkVXYeOMePezmN pVGRy6VoRnj2dzQkoQKp9LyTuMzJVfc7jRswjj/QI1Miavzt0CPJAg0S7DkCyJvhVsXJ mE1g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.226.73 with SMTP id z70mr3965711oig.64.1441383208873; Fri, 04 Sep 2015 09:13:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55E9B635.1070200@jump-ing.de> References: <55E8E02D DOT 5050402 AT ecosensory DOT com> <55E97313 DOT 3050602 AT jump-ing DOT de> <55E9A540 DOT 30109 AT ecosensory DOT com> <55E9B635 DOT 1070200 AT jump-ing DOT de> Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 18:13:28 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [geda-user] Interesting blog post from a commercial EDA vendor From: "Javier Serrano (javier DOT serrano DOT pareja AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com]" To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:18 PM, Markus Hitter (mah AT jump-ing DOT de) [via geda-user AT delorie DOT com] wrote: > Am 04.09.2015 um 16:05 schrieb John Griessen: >> You should not give up on the open >> hardware concept Markus -- there are success >> stories different than makerbot. > > I'm not aware of one. Not even Arduino. The Arduino folks put tremendous > efforts into coming along with an easy to use package, but wherever you > look, people buy cheap clones. It works in many places, including Arduino the way I see things, but I guess you have your own narrative and I respect it. I can however try to rebate the assertion that no success story exists by giving our own example at CERN. Our friends in the Knowledge Transfer group even prepared a nice brochure about it [1]. Disclaimer: success in OSHW means different things to different people, and I see a lot of "no true Scotsman" arguments in the discussions, justified or not. I would also like to comment on the "Chinese" problem you describe. Since the only interaction with Chinese I have had is with them fixing some problems in an OSHW timing system we use [2] and very generously sharing the knowledge they acquired in the process, I will use the term "cheap knock-off" instead. I don't remember if it was in his TEDx talk [3] or elsewhere, but Nathan Seidle (founder of Sparkfun) said cheap knock-offs are a fact of life, and in his case they are largely *independent* of whether he publishes his designs as open source or not. So if hardware price is your only, or even just your main, commercial argument, then you might be in trouble in general. As you probably know, Sparkfun is a very successful company. Trying to understand their success should be a good exercise for whoever is thinking of starting an OSHW business. I attribute a large part of the success of OSHW at CERN to the fact that we are very careful when we qualify companies for calls-for-tender. We select only companies which employ people who understand the designs, can help debug them, support them, etc. There is still competition price-wise, but not the race-to-the-bottom type. All of the other OSHW success stories I know are also customer-driven, in the sense that people buy not only hardware but also "openness" and all the good things that come with it. Cheers, Javier [1] http://www.ohwr.org/attachments/3841/OHL.pdf [2] http://arxiv.org/abs/1406.4223 [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfu_MKgu2Ik