X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to djgpp-bounces using -f X-Recipient: djgpp AT delorie DOT com From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: Python, Perl, Lua, Ruby -- anybody?? In-Reply-To: <8ea89a75-ac4b-4235-b372-b7a8ffc51945@z19g2000vbz.googlegroups.com> References: <7705c9030905132340u49a2fd15ke564b9ce930c09db AT mail DOT gmail DOT com> <61f9fc90-2d0d-4db9-baa0-0a26ef663ce3 AT g20g2000vba DOT googlegroups DOT com> <8ea89a75-ac4b-4235-b372-b7a8ffc51945 AT z19g2000vbz DOT googlegroups DOT com> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 83e35df20028+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) Date: Sat, 23 May 2009 20:40:52 +0900 Message-ID: <87my94dp2z.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Reply-To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: djgpp AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk Rugxulo writes: > Is it just me or is Linux very media-oriented these days? As RMS always says, "Linux is a kernel, it's the GNU System" that is so bloated. :-) This is very much by design; for example, look at GNU hello, which now weighs in at many kB of source, or GNU true, which sports --help and --version options (which are localized, don'cha know!) OTOH, the kernel has a lot of media oriented drivers, but they can all be modularized or omitted. I suppose you could say threads and multiprocessor support are also important to media (especially games), but I don't think that's main thing. I guess a lot of the functionality in modern kernels really is functional. :-) > When every distro tries to include MPlayer, XMMS, Firefox, Flash, > etc., no wonder they all top out at huge sizes. Commercial distros that aim at who choose their own distros tend to include a lot of that stuff by default (and I consider a graphical browser an essential component of a personal system nowadays), but AFAIK they all allow installing a "server" style system or even a "bare" system with just enough to allow you to pull in the packages you want. But as long as all that fits on the DVD but you don't have to load it on your system, who cares? Of course if you pull in anything that starts with "g" you'll get about 2GB of GNOME and GTK libraries to go with it, and the "k" stuff is just as bad I suppose. That *does* matter, but if you're not going to install X all that is YCERIA (You Can't Even Run It Anyway ;-). > Originally, I think GNU tools were just clones of *nix tools, but they > officially allowed improvements too, as long as they didn't use more > than 1 MB of RAM. Actually, no. Go read the GNU Manifesto, dated 1985 IIRC; RMS officially encouraged reading the whole file (whatever it might be) into memory and using in-memory, global algorithms rather than external, incremental ones, as a way to differentiate GNU tools from the Unix originals (as a defense against copyright infringement). Note that that was an *example* of how you could change the algorithm to make legal defense easier, but it's a very prominent one. This implementation strategy is used in several prominent GNU tools (eg, Emacs, which is stupid, 'cause no judge would ever mistake Emacs for a Microsoft product -- unless of course the Microsoft lawyers managed to exclude everything but the output of ps from evidence!)