X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to djgpp-bounces using -f Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 19:41:49 +0200 From: alex bodnaru Subject: Re: smallest set of files needed In-reply-to: <66.61655516.307fdfa3@aol.com> To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Message-id: <434E9C5D.2030703@alex3> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en-us, he References: <66 DOT 61655516 DOT 307fdfa3 AT aol DOT com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050831 Debian/1.7.8-1sarge2 Reply-To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com X-Mailing-List: djgpp AT delorie DOT com X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com Precedence: bulk hi guenter, please don't take it as a flame, but an effort to put things into proportion. c is definitely a language designed for programers, but not so dificult to learn and use. programming is a very time consuming activity, so that the effort to install a development environment is only a small initial investion. by far, the djgpp compiler set for c + rhide are a very useful, rich featured and quite easy to use, all expanding to less than 30M. it could run under dos, windows, os/2, linux and every dos emulator on a 386 machine or better. as your friend will become more knowlegeable, he/she might make a far better suited choice, but here is a quite good point to start from. best regards, alex Sterten AT aol DOT com wrote: > >> But it's clear now, that GCC/DJGPP is not a good choice to do > >> this. > >Why? Too big? > > too big, too many files, too complicated the installation, > too difficult to explain to someone who is not a programmer. > > >> So, is there another compiler which someone can recommend for this > >> purpose ? > > > >Okay, I'll list the reduced files for OpenWATCOM. I'm not sure if > >it is really any smaller... > > > >> (easy to install, handles basic C-commands, few and short files, > >>compatible, > >> free from copyright/license etc.) > > > >I have yet to see a Public Domain C compiler. Everything has some > >type of restriction... And, if it doesn't, it is usually too > >incomplete to be useful. > > C is the most standard language, I think. Used for most University > research. Lots of software has been written in C. So we should have > this compiler already. It should even be included in the OS. > If it isn't there, then something must be wrong with the > whole computer busyness. (IMO) > > >> I would even accept if only a subset of C-commands is compiled > >> and speed is not so important. > > > >You can also use CIL (C Intermediate Language) (link below) to > >simplify C code as much as you want. CIL is a C to C "translator" > >used to eliminate coding errors but also reduces complexity and > >posix code to simpler code. > > > >>But it should have good compatibility > >> with GCC/DJGPP. > > > >Not likely, due to POSIX, unless you switch to Linux. There are > >alot of simple C compilers for Linux e.g., TCC by F. Bellard (links > >below). > > I don't know about Linux. Maybe it was a mistake not to choose Linux > in the first place, but now I'm too lazy to change. > > >Sincerely, > > > >Rod Pemberton > > > > > >To use the reduced file sets for WATCOM, you'll need to put these > >in a .bat file and run it: > >SET WATCOM=C:\WATCOM > >SET EDPATH=C:\WATCOM\EDDAT > >SET INCLUDE=C:\WATCOM\H;C:\WATCOM\H\NT > > > >A minimal set of files for DOS RM OpenWATCOM: > >C:\watcom\binw\wcc.exe > >C:\watcom\binw\wcl.exe > >C:\watcom\binw\wlink.exe > >C:\watcom\binw\wlink.lnk > >C:\watcom\binw\wlsystem.lnk > >C:\watcom\binw\wstub.exe > >C:\watcom\h\*.h > >C:\watcom\h\sys\*.h > >C:\watcom\lib286\dos\clibs.lib > >C:\watcom\lib286\dos\emu87.lib > >C:\watcom\lib286\dos\graph.lib > >C:\watcom\lib286\math87s.lib > > > >A minimal set of files for DOS PM OpenWATCOM: > >C:\watcom\binw\wcc386.exe > >C:\watcom\binw\wcl386.exe > >C:\watcom\binw\wlink.exe > >C:\watcom\binw\wlink.lnk > >C:\watcom\binw\wlsystem.lnk > >C:\watcom\binw\wstub.exe > >C:\watcom\h\*.h > >C:\watcom\h\sys\*.h > >C:\watcom\lib386\dos\clib3r.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\dos\clib3s.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\dos\emu387.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\dos\graph.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\math387r.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\math387s.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\math3r.lib > >C:\watcom\lib386\math3s.lib > > why don't they put these into one file ? > > >Simple C compilers for DOS: > > > >smallC86 and smc88dos from here: > >http://www.retroarchive.org/cpm/archive/unofficial/download/ > > link doesn't work > > >smc386c will could easily be retargetd to tasm, etc... > >http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~vitchev/smallc-i386.html > > smc386c.c doesn't compile with gcc3.2 > > >CIL (C Intermediate Language) > >CIL (C Intermediate Language) http://manju.cs.berkeley.edu/cil/ > > no compiler. And tons of documentation to read > > >There is some limited 16bit support for DJGPP > > > >DJGPP's gcc patches/djlink/nasm > > link doesn't work > > >http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/16bit/djlink/ > > I don't understand this. What is it ? And it seems that you need > a compiler anyway. > > >http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/16bit/ > > "This is not for the average programmer. This stuff does not install > easily and doesn't work well yet! Don't use unless you are prepared > to fix any bugs you find yourself." > > >Simple C compilers floating around the internet that should compile > >for Linux: > > no Linux > > >Small C by Ron Cain (large number of microprocessors) > >FBCC and TCC by Fabrice Bellard > >BCC by Bruce Evans (from ELKS) > >Linux's Dev86 (from ELKS) > >OXCC C Compiler by Norman Culver > >PCC by C Ware Corporation > >Pacific C by Hitech Soft > >Amsterdam Compiler Kit > >Micro C by Dave Dunfield > >OSD (includes C compiler) by Chris Giese > > > > > Wouldn't it be nice if programmers could attach their source and > their compiler to the executables and people could easily edit > the executable - even non-programmers (e.g. output commands or > other simple things). > And then the changed executable could be run to recompile itself ? > > > Imagine this newsgroup-dialogue : > Q: > >can I change the size of the monster in the upper right corner > > in level 7 of game xyz ? > A: > > load xyz.exe into your editor and replace the 5 in line 745 by an 8 > > and then recompile by running "xyz -compile". xyz.exe will change itself > > with the new monster included. You can recover the old version, > > "xyz -old" > > > > -Guenter.