Message-ID: <36FFEE44.9499FC4B@lycosmail.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:19:00 -0500
From: Adam Schrotenboer <ajschrotenboer AT lycosmail DOT com>
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To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com
Subject: Re: DJGPP: the future is... ?
References: <199903260517 DOT AAA32193 AT envy DOT delorie DOT com>
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Reply-To: djgpp AT delorie DOT com

If I may make another suggestion, I hear references to a port of X windows
(Is this just a part of XFree 86, or essentially the same thing???). I was
thinking that a port of GNOME may be a bit better. XFree86 is Open Source,
but not GPL, while GNOME is.

DJ Delorie wrote:

> Don't panic!
>
> I've been doing some thinking lately about where DJGPP is going.  I've
> concluded to myself that it really isn't *going* anywhere, it's
> *there*.  The core code is pretty stable and feature-full.  GNU ports
> come out often enough, and we're becoming "just another unix platform"
> for a lot of people.  The web pages have pretty much everything I can
> think to add to them (although we can always use more documentation :)
> The big focus these days is on third-party additions (like Allegro)
> and applications.
>
> Cool.
>
> The big question I have for you all is this:  What's next?
>
> I don't mean "Let's write application XYZ", I mean for the DJGPP
> project itself.  Think BIG.  I don't see too many people installing
> DOS these days, and Cygwin is shaping up to be almost as good as DJGPP
> (hey, I can boast - I'm on both teams) so the Win32 systems will see
> less demand for DJGPP over time (I expect, at least).  Plus, a lot of
> DJGPP users are switching to Linux or WinNT/Cygwin.
>
> So what are our choices?
>
> Well, we can try to saturate the DOS market.  I don't know how to do
> that, unless we spend a fortune on ads in PC magazines :-(  Perhaps an
> effort to "spread the word" in other forums (nicely, please) would
> "enlighten the uninformed", but it's for diminishing returns.
>
> We could try to make DJGPP a Windows-native system.  I don't think
> this is a good idea because 90% of the value in DJGPP is the way it
> hides DOS, and we'd have to throw it all away and start from scratch
> if we switched to the Win32 API.  Plus, Cygwin already does Win32, and
> legally I can't promote such a project because that's what I already
> do for Cygnus.  If you like this option, join the cygwin team - you'll
> be much happier, and we can always use more help.
>
> For the same reason, DJGPP for Linux is a bad idea.  Heck, DJGPP is a
> port of the Linux tools themselves!
>
> We could overhaul DJGPP again for ELF support and a few other
> fundamental design changes, but why mess with a good thing?  Sure,
> we've got a list of bugs to fix (like C++ templates in COFF) but
> they'll get fixed eventually.  Such redesigns would have little real
> effect on the project.
>
> So, I'm at a loss as to where we should be focusing our energy at this
> time.  Mailing list traffic doubled every year from 1993 to 1997, but
> *dropped* 10% in 1998 (1999 isn't looking too good, either), and
> delorie.com's web server has had a pretty steady load for the last two
> years, even though I've got plenty of spare resources.  I think our
> period of growth is over unless we start something new, but what?
>
> So my task for you, my loyal fans, devoted followers, silent lurkers,
> and the occasional tax collector (hiss!) is to help shape the future!
> Let's get those ideas flowing and figure out what the Next Big Thing
> for us will be!
>
> Considerations (but not limitations):
>
> * GPL.  We've come a long way with it, no reason to change now.
>
> * Should give something to the community.  DJGPP was built by the
>   community, the benefits should go to the community.
>
> * Traffic to my web server means money for us, which I turn into more
>   servers, bigger disks, faster net connections, time to write CGIs,
>   etc.  The main DJGPP server is a P166 with 27Gb of disk and a 1Mb/s
>   link, but if you folks want to chip in for a PII/450 I'll get one
>   ;-) Current traffic just about covers ISP, electric bills, and
>   upkeep (about $9,000/year).
>
> * Should be long term and highly visible, so we'll all get rich and
>   famous (we hope) through contracts and such.
>
> * Should be something that can grow on its own.  For example, if
>   personal labor is involved (like consulting), you're limited by how
>   much you can do, but a web page, computer program, or software
>   package can grow and multiply without needing more people-hours.
>   This also frees us up to do other projects when we're done :-)
>
> So crank up those brains, think carefully, and let's hear your
> suggesions.  No flames please!  You may send me private mail if you
> don't want your ideas public, else send them to the djgpp forum.
>
> DJ