Message-ID: <34FA5887.6128DB7A@pacificnet.net> Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 22:58:15 -0800 From: Ralph Gesler MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scorpio AT onlinemac DOT com CC: djgpp AT delorie DOT com Subject: Re: C++ in Death Throes? References: <34F8FC7B DOT 62D33DF9 AT swt DOT edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C796A4F9B2148E1D8B9B88AC" Precedence: bulk --------------C796A4F9B2148E1D8B9B88AC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > -----Original Message----- > From: scorpio > Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.djgpp > Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 9:27 AM > Subject: C++ in Death Throes? > > > >Hi > >I am just learning to program, got a big book, downloaded djgpp and went > >for it. > > > >So i really dont know to much about the Programming Business? > > > >I was wondering if i could get opinions on whether or not people think > >that C++ is worth learning. > > > >I dont suppose it would hurt, but if your kid was going to get into > >programming, where would you try to steer him. > > > >If it depends on what a person wants to do, lets look at applications > >first then games. > > > >If it depends on format, well i dont know enough about the formats, but > >windows seems to be winning the race. > > > >anyway i would appreciate any response. > > > I am also new to C/C++, but not new to programming, and chose to add to my knowledge for a number of reasons that I feel also apply to someone learning their first language. Of course everything that follows is only one mans opinion. 1. C/C++ has become accepted world wide as the preferred language for many applications as evidenced by the huge volume of software developed using it commercially and in academia. 2. Apparently C/C++ has become the language of choice to be formally taught to beginning students starting in high school and continuing in advanced schooling. This alone assures that as a viable language it will be around for some time to come. 3. The new ISO standard, ready for formal adoption, will assure(?) port between compilers and further encourage the wide spread use of the language. Is C/C++ the "best" language to learn? I do NOT want to start a thread debating the best programming language and quote Bjarne Stroustrup: "Language comparisons are rarely meaningful and even less often fair. A good comparison of major programming languages requires more effort than most people are willing to spend, experience in a wide range of application areas, a rigid maintenance of a detached and impartial point of view, and a sense of fairness. ....... I also worry about a phenomenon I have repeatedly observed in honest attempts at language comparisons. The authors try hard to be impartial, but are hopelessly biased by focusing on a single application, a single style of programming, or a single culture among programmers. Worse, when one language is significantly better known than others, a subtle shift in perspective occurs: " In my opinion the best programming language to use must be solely determined by the application for which the program is being developed. Considering just the general acceptance and installed compilers, C/C++ would seem, at this time, to be the choice for applications where the best solution requires system access or oop, This includes a large percentage of applications in today's computing environment. On the other hand, if number crunching is the prime requirement, than Fortran may be the better choice. Careful analysis of the problem is required before starting to code. Please don't misinterpret my statement as advocating C/C++ and Fortran as the ultimate or even best programming languages available. I am not qualified to make such a judgment; my choice of these two is based to a great extent on the standardization, widespread distribution and use, and broad base of experience and support available when the inevitable problem occurs. In conclusion, my personal opinion is: 1. Avoid learning any proprietary language as your first or only programming tool. These can always be learned at a later time if needed for specific applications. 2. Get a good tutorial for C/C++ avoiding anything with a company name in it's title. After mastering the tutorial switch to a more advanced text (e.g.. "The C++ Programming Language", third edition, Bjarne Stroustrup, Addison-Wesley, ISBN 0-201-88954-4) and start at page one to learn the details of the language. 3. After becoming a "master" : ) of C/C++, investigate and become familiar with another language(s) and other facets of programming that can be very beneficial in analyzing the problem and defining the solution including the best language to use at that time. Paul Short wrote on this thread: But learning languages and libraries are only parts of the big picture... a little theory goes a long way. I've been able to accomplish a lot more after exposure to things like algorithm analysis, data structures, discrete mathematics, and even basic college algebra. I've also found software engineering practices are useful for organizing projects, improving quality, and reducing errors. Ralph Gesler rgesler AT pacificnet DOT net --------------C796A4F9B2148E1D8B9B88AC Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----Original Message-----
From: scorpio <scorpio AT onlinemac DOT com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.djgpp
Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 9:27 AM
Subject: C++ in Death Throes?
 

>Hi
>I am just learning to program, got a big book, downloaded djgpp and went
>for it.
>
>So i really dont know to much about the Programming Business?
>
>I was wondering if i could get opinions on whether or not people think
>that C++ is worth learning.
>
>I dont suppose it would hurt, but if your kid was going to get into
>programming, where would you try to steer him.
>
>If it depends on what a person wants to do, lets look at applications
>first then games.
>
>If it depends on format, well i dont know enough about the formats, but
>windows seems to be winning the race.
>
>anyway i would appreciate any response.
 
 
 

  I am also new to C/C++, but not new to programming, and chose to add to my knowledge for a number of reasons that I feel also apply to someone learning their first language. Of course everything that follows is only one mans opinion.

1. C/C++  has become accepted world wide as the preferred language for many applications as evidenced by the huge volume of software developed using it commercially and in academia.
2. Apparently C/C++ has become the language of choice to be formally taught to beginning students starting in high school and continuing in advanced schooling.  This alone assures that as a viable language it will be around for some time to come.
3. The new ISO standard, ready for formal adoption, will assure(?) port between compilers and further encourage the wide spread use of the language.

Is C/C++ the "best" language to learn? I do NOT want to start a thread debating the best programming language and quote Bjarne Stroustrup:
 
"Language comparisons are rarely meaningful and even less often fair. A good comparison of
major programming languages requires more effort than most people are willing to spend, experience in a wide range of application areas, a rigid maintenance of a detached and impartial point of view, and a sense of fairness. .......
  I also worry about a phenomenon I have repeatedly observed in honest attempts at language comparisons. The authors try hard to be impartial, but are hopelessly biased by focusing on a single application, a single style of programming, or a single culture among programmers. Worse, when one language is significantly better known than others, a subtle shift in perspective occurs: "
 

In my opinion the best programming language to use must be solely determined by the application for which the program is being developed.  Considering just the general acceptance and installed compilers, C/C++ would seem, at this time, to be the  choice for applications where the best solution requires system access or oop, This includes a large percentage of applications in today's computing environment.  On the other hand, if number crunching is the prime requirement, than Fortran may be the better choice. Careful analysis of the problem is required before starting to code. Please don't misinterpret my statement as advocating C/C++ and Fortran as the ultimate or even best programming languages available. I am not qualified to make such a judgment; my choice  of these two is based to a great extent on the standardization, widespread distribution and use, and broad base of experience and support available when the inevitable problem occurs.

 In conclusion, my personal opinion is:
1. Avoid learning any proprietary language as your first or only programming tool. These can always be learned at a later time if needed for specific applications.
2. Get a good tutorial for C/C++ avoiding anything with a company name in it's title.  After mastering the tutorial switch to a more advanced text (e.g.. "The C++ Programming Language", third edition, Bjarne Stroustrup, Addison-Wesley, ISBN 0-201-88954-4) and start at page one to learn the details of the language.
 3. After becoming a "master" : ) of C/C++, investigate and become familiar with another language(s) and other facets of programming that can be very beneficial in analyzing the problem and defining the solution including the best language to use at that time. Paul Short wrote on this thread:

      But learning languages and libraries are only parts of the big
      picture... a little theory goes a long way.  I've been able to
      accomplish a lot more after exposure to things like algorithm analysis,
      data structures, discrete mathematics, and even basic college algebra.
      I've also found software engineering practices are useful for organizing
      projects, improving quality, and reducing errors.

Ralph Gesler
rgesler AT pacificnet DOT net --------------C796A4F9B2148E1D8B9B88AC--