DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 delorie.com 531MXQBX2469034
Authentication-Results: delorie.com; dmarc=pass (p=none dis=none) header.from=cygwin.com
Authentication-Results: delorie.com; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cygwin.com
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 delorie.com 531MXQBX2469034
Authentication-Results: delorie.com;
	dkim=pass (1024-bit key, unprotected) header.d=cygwin.com header.i=@cygwin.com header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=default header.b=cbUg1mdo
X-Recipient: archive-cygwin AT delorie DOT com
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 sourceware.org E4C8D3865C2D
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cygwin.com;
	s=default; t=1743546805;
	bh=HH5IXgRHfp9fHVgwAHnyOdQOqk3MNSIETm+rcAp49cU=;
	h=Date:Subject:To:References:In-Reply-To:List-Id:List-Unsubscribe:
	 List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe:From:Reply-To:
	 From;
	b=cbUg1mdojeaWRFLx4ybclHrpqKVBQkjR+z1d7pZu8dXdcCuwIa1tzwfqtvzZMOIiz
	 2oiSOE8yUWZNkzSfbX0HgotyXW1BwbWEm8KiRMAGKEGNzKKNTd8EWSj5zCvCOMHLuv
	 scNNrOWjNUdd5mtWy7kqk5Z7UNG9HO/4AMSi8y3w=
X-Original-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Delivered-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org A5B17385843D
ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v1.0.0 sourceware.org A5B17385843D
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1743546776; cv=none;
 b=P5ExsNdDqbEWMMVyctuZRrL5H59dMepR7PfM3/qiec3WKd6cA7VfsMXGU5h+IdsX18kEIFLzuKa2W+0o0i7DOxD19KTPJPEMsw9qrWkIqOcfG/e6WXjUIyhaC+jfktS94SNEv8vc07O9LwRnaJd2jb6pLvVUepzEpECHpIx7/Io=
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key;
 t=1743546776; c=relaxed/simple;
 bh=2vliYd2Zz4yqid4lxMur/m2PdM4jPxtTNXT5GKvITrs=;
 h=DKIM-Signature:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From;
 b=BNKpXm24mqkxnCxnSeNhucvpVhqgv9uYJwwUhUcGLbdKAfGx1V8R3w81Kxxq0LsLIcXZmsoNEmFQYRCJaX9yQhDvfGkxncDbT41x9jUnFBfNoO5ywD+Y9JhIHZV06NKxOoVivbXU05kyDHwJgKxGcwDFIJlLhcpJ5XqQZeZlkVQ=
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; server2.sourceware.org
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 sourceware.org A5B17385843D
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 758753C010878
X-Virus-Scanned: amavis at mail.cs.ucla.edu
Message-ID: <896fb3d5-e019-4261-9284-58c204f03da6@cs.ucla.edu>
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2025 15:32:55 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: symbolic link curiousity in 3.6.0
To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
References: <Z-aP1jhjXTUVvP-E AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de> <11037686 DOT 3WhfQktd6Z AT nimes>
 <91c9d441-36e3-4dd5-b2ca-3cfd498d2260 AT draigBrady DOT com>
 <Z-fLulclFs13NfAm AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de>
 <a78f800c-0463-4efb-b431-c2c244bd13c7 AT cs DOT ucla DOT edu>
 <Z-k-ALeeYtJx7SqL AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de>
 <1c0fb53a-2a6d-4d9d-8dbe-d70cc9296d5d AT draigBrady DOT com>
 <37f0f8b7-4251-4acd-b448-2f0d7c30a988 AT cs DOT ucla DOT edu>
 <cf5a19db-0985-4f0c-887a-5eb0f7a126b4 AT draigBrady DOT com>
 <675dac19-3c71-436f-93ce-e8f73b65b16c AT cs DOT ucla DOT edu>
 <Z-reVvpUB2n8pG-2 AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de>
 <8082949c-968d-44ed-b8c7-88bb239c3653 AT cs DOT ucla DOT edu>
 <1448648585 DOT 20250401130709 AT yandex DOT ru>
Content-Language: en-US
Autocrypt: addr=eggert AT cs DOT ucla DOT edu; keydata=
 xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9
 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS
 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl
 KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss
 mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK
 QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2
 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC
 OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+
 KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB
 n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy
 dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBlQQTAQgAPwIbAwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwEC
 HgECF4AWIQR+N5Kp2Kz31jO8FYjtl+kOYqp+NAUCZiLOewUJHWQLDAAKCRDtl+kOYqp+NHGE
 D/9Wmbk+cAaQsYLPGBvyzIjZIRzo/V2p3ZwckVA1VEQivx5azu1cs86qDoVIe45AtwmKOvdV
 wTQd/QeglkZR6D2YPW7UR/7emajyJZZcy+etVTDKoaw1i6/hmd/CpGjUeUSvgoPs6nYR+1lo
 pSXTpaGrh1W0qQHalSkOOwCHG3HtGk9Ve2AERDUYxmcn8/eZHb7xpUJEJMBBI1bx/zcw1EtB
 rjsQ1R1faJ/r/7LPAyV36RLvnbX69PylHKQEbJoaY9aUb2Vpm63ni3FeTA7/3jpPvaSRWHJh
 vPYx6Fm2Ln8pI0Yf/W2B8QMiPTnF/LnH2kvUcf9VXm+1mQJ3fBFU25HZwBhuqZ24IeKymPEt
 BUMQAum97Dto0jSgR2OUvX7z+twhpQEgRGBzPHYwDi4SxF5Z4Q5Y7B7a++HP9tIxG6CVFIwI
 4xVaZud18bPa0YBL+cISmMgxq7h7yoVXl6u3pm9Yiv+W6Lp9QGN8Rw1VuJMOoFCYuoxG8mXO
 TA5b1jvlQ32gHFFhqErDAhNJRsfgrpe9Gok4Ycp+rWljbvS5Wrl0uth5MP7FbaHN2kmTZibq
 KXAd//IqczhDyU6qnW6ao+h4iDBDgYgRbQjmToX/vmIdEMzvPGqWXKhe/q1TYMuOO+IfP+bI
 fyPFH29nVN/o9c4J7myeKvv3HKSXdSVjlh2V787BTQRMgHJkARAApoXrvxP3DIfjCNOtXU/P
 dwMShKdX/RlSs5PfunV1wbKP8herXHrvQdFVqECaTSxmlhzbk8X0PkY9gcVaU2O49T3qsOd1
 cHeF52YFGEt0LhsBeMjgNX5uZ1V76r8gyeVlFpWWb0SIwJUBHrDXexF67upeRb2vdHBjYDNe
 ySn+0B7gFEqvVmZu+LadudDp6kQLjatFvHQHUSGNshBnkkcaTbiI9Pst0GCc2aiznBiPPA2W
 QxAPlPRh3OGTsn5THADmbjqY6FEMLasVX8DSCblMvLwNeO/8SxziBidhqLpJCqdQRWHku5Xx
 gIkGeKOz5OLDvXHWJyafrEYjjkS6Ak6B5z6svKliClWnjHQcjlPzyoFFgKTEfcqDxCj4RY0D
 0DgtFD0NfyeOidrSB/SzTe2hwryQE3rpSiqo+0cGdzh4yAHKYJ+UrXZ4p93ZhjGfKD1xlrNY
 DlWyW9PGmbvqFuDmiIAQf9WD/wzEfICc+F+uDDI+uYkRxUFp92ykmdhDEFg1yjYsU8iGU69a
 Hyvhq36z4zctvbqhRNzOWB1bVJ/dIMDvsExGcXQVDIT7sDNXv0wE3jKSKpp7NDG1oXUXL+2+
 SF99Kjy753AbQSAmH617fyBNwhJWvQYg+mUvPpiGOtses9EXUI3lS4v0MEaPG43flEs1UR+1
 rpFQWVHo1y1OO+sAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJgIbDBYhBH43kqnYrPfWM7wViO2X6Q5iqn40BQJm
 Is58BQkdZAsMAAoJEO2X6Q5iqn40Q68QAJ9GubS/ej30Vc4idoZdc0IyMcL7kQJbMohF+Tyn
 ZE+TGn9WvzP10yLyzoI0vNlcNfP92d2MS//pFjOuANb5mwyiEYA+rDZIdS4ZZpHxCs2sxMC4
 afLCf3kv4aMnTeBvb9na403dlczz9cAacvsmniSFdpb1+BzMpYbybglU5oYMGhYT2nnCRjXN
 6S2nKYt4mjJeeOuxHrdeqQQdVBNYeNfTcPePeqvZ2+bD6u9yxZtaV+wxdpqglosQvjqhOYz7
 h50/ZTSq70/npoCq44TzdJKttaYvlW6ziRz0g4RRAqZyoxjYXiy5qj8r8zXJuB11ApZCGuKn
 /usbji9RYbflAhxFeh4LMmpDVi6BrF30b73Md59K7PuEKN1NxzlWiqqQHZZ9momN0GXLPcGq
 4uyfq7yVEy7wP5PMOh6oqscKklE3gFQtq0P1Ki0xqdF6Fq5LPJc+0Db2CYkVIy7Xaa/f74I3
 sOfQfEeDylVXR5iDfUJEYv/0DYhOr7q5/0b1kh3M4wkrB4C5jVNHjIIj+RsAK90c3t38OhAl
 jiSN7Bkwy24Afy8eIu6wWzvhnsQGpZPB+IffmxT1wkTy8UxZKjUWV0C82iphVgCUUi2f9sDV
 Q/tNcwVWmOS+gdv9Wk6tdGeM+Ee+Qs6YG05jcSoajzF0TL07ajLcayRq2j1Os2CtQ8qu
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
In-Reply-To: <1448648585.20250401130709@yandex.ru>
X-BeenThere: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.30
Precedence: list
List-Id: General Cygwin discussions and problem reports <cygwin.cygwin.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://cygwin.com/mailman/options/cygwin>,
 <mailto:cygwin-request AT cygwin DOT com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://cygwin.com/pipermail/cygwin/>
List-Post: <mailto:cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Help: <mailto:cygwin-request AT cygwin DOT com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://cygwin.com/mailman/listinfo/cygwin>,
 <mailto:cygwin-request AT cygwin DOT com?subject=subscribe>
From: Paul Eggert via Cygwin <cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
Reply-To: Paul Eggert <eggert AT cs DOT ucla DOT edu>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"
Errors-To: cygwin-bounces~archive-cygwin=delorie DOT com AT cygwin DOT com
Sender: "Cygwin" <cygwin-bounces~archive-cygwin=delorie DOT com AT cygwin DOT com>

>> traditionally (and I'm talking about 7th edition Unix) a single
>> output line of 'ls' corresponded to a state obtained atomically from the
>> file system. I realize we can't always do that nowadays but the further we
>> depart from it, the worse 'ls' users will be.
> The link dereferencing is a courtesy of LS, and in no way it is guaranteed to
> be stable in a long run.

Not sure I get the point here. Although 7th edition Unix didn't have 
symlinks, the idea that 'stat' should be atomic is valid even in the 
presence of symlinks.

Is your point that 'stat', which follows symlinks, might give results 
that don't correspond to any state of the filesystem at any time in the 
past? If so, I'm not sure I agree (at least for filesystems that do 
things atomically as POSIX requires); if not, then I am not 
understanding the point.

-- 
Problem reports:      https://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                  https://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:        https://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:     https://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple