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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 13:04:25 +0300
From: Andrey Repin <anrdaemon AT yandex DOT ru>
Reply-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Message-ID: <152468049.20160415130425@yandex.ru>
To: Warren Young <wyml AT etr-usa DOT com>, cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: Re: native Linux userland in Windows 10
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Greetings, Warren Young!

> On Apr 14, 2016, at 1:07 PM, Andrey Repin wrote:
>> 
>>>> small things like cygpath
>> 
>>> A cygpath like facility is neither useful nor needed in UfW.
>> 
>> Which means, I can't call diff between files on my file manager's two panels?

> Sure you can.  c:\tmp\foo.txt is seen as /mnt/c/tmp/foo.txt inside the UfW
> box.  That is, /mnt under UfW behaves much like /cygpath under Cygwin.

And how does that help?

> The only difference between UfW and Cygwin in this regard is that UfW
> doesn’t have any fallbacks for mixed-mode and DOS-style style paths.  Only
> POSIX paths work, which is the recommended way of working with Cygwin, too. 
> Microsoft is bypassing

More like dismissing.

> one of the most troublesome areas of day-to-day
> Cygwin use here by refusing to accept anything but POSIX paths.

The point of Cygwin for me was always an interoperability.
I can shift focus back and forth with minimal issues, if any.

>>> Ubuntu with severe limitations
>>> is still highly useful; witness Raspian.
>> 
>> Raspian is an operating system.
>> This… this, I don't know how to call it, but it's a complete joke.

> Hyperbolic much?

No, just a little.

> I’d say UfW checks off most of the defining characteristics of an OS:
> there’s a separate kernel and userland, it does scheduling, mediates IPC,
> keeps processes from stomping on each other…  About the only thing it
> doesn’t do is privilege separation, but if that’s a necessary qualification
> for a thing to be an OS, a Linux box booted into single-user mode isn’t an OS, either.

In other words, it's a virtual machine. About as useful as any other, and
there's way more useful and complete solutions already on the market.

>>> A concrete example: All those soul-patch web developers choose to carry Mac
>>> laptops not just because they’re the hipster choice, but because Node runs
>>> much better under OS X than Windows.  That proposition wholly changes in
>>> this UfW world: run node.js in the Ubuntu box and connect to it over the
>>> OS’s shared network stack from the Windows GUI browser of your choice.
>> 
>> At the same time, you could run any given VM and get much better options and
>> choices.

> You can make the same argument about Cygwin.

No.

> And yet, despite the free
> availability of top-quality VM technology, Cygwin continues to thrive.

Because interoperability.

> UfW won’t fill 100% of the use cases of Cygwin from day 1, but for a lot of
> cases, the two will be interchangeable,

Name me a few. I can't imagine even "bash here" implemented in this... this.
Not to mention royally screwed permissions.

>>>> I just hope it does not interfere too much with my Cygwin setup
>> 
>>> UfW will be completely independent of Cygwin.
>>> More’s the pity, because it means you’ll be incentivized to choose one or
>>> the other, likely to Cygwin’s net detriment.
>> 
>> Since it will be independent of Windows as well as Cygwin, the choice is a
>> nobrainer.

> If that is your decision for yourself, that’s perfectly fine.  However, I
> predict that a whole lot of people will find uses for this technology,
> thereby making it “useful,” by definition.

Yes, of course. People always find uses for everything. Doesn't make it any
more useful.
And they will see no issues when moving from this crap to real *NIX system.
Always working as root? What could possible go wrong?


-- 
With best regards,
Andrey Repin
Friday, April 15, 2016 12:53:35

Sorry for my terrible english...