X-Recipient: archive-cygwin AT delorie DOT com DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:from:to:subject:date:message-id:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version; q=dns; s=default; b=fP2A1chrenZzWcq0fbHcGSjT5b7Ly esF5bdQq1aDc36SKhU0YreoxDyngqmwoQZvWa72tlwCHdhmWgXWWgxPw51wfGI0Q qJmh2AXr0HnljYVj4h+6U3iTvftCpJY8UOySh3MbKndfdg3dkgf6zOioeC0+DnDW bNSS4O3MmTztRA= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=sourceware.org; h=list-id :list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-archive:list-post :list-help:sender:from:to:subject:date:message-id:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding :mime-version; s=default; bh=vZs0b8dXP5ubAiVkuvfHtswrdBw=; b=P3F 6mZtplFakHcIFFoV1AIPsNf2NZ+aPu58GgEmdKtJSaXLM63H5eUcUN1xrbRT+DoD 7aS59bBLXphf4oJcCv3z0icp7BcR6yWo+jSzeW0tq7aY41Nv2q//orSDhkFVhRWL ikFlHZVV2ZlfY+qcDK7YtMW54lY8X91amyUD2130= Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_50,MIME_BASE64_BLANKS,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_HELO_PASS,SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-HELO: na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com From: Rich Eizenhoefer To: "cygwin AT cygwin DOT com" Subject: RE: From Microsoft: Windows 10 Console and Cygwin Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 17:23:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20150502133833 DOT GB12723 AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de> <1433098286892-118602 DOT post AT n5 DOT nabble DOT com> <20150601082456 DOT GG4308 AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de>

<556E01FC DOT 6060004 AT redhat DOT com> <20150608114924 DOT GA3005 AT calimero DOT vinschen DOT de> In-Reply-To: <20150608114924.GA3005@calimero.vinschen.de> authentication-results: cygwin.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;BN3PR03MB1432;3:quyfKhqbGpGuEqM+OS20lzVHJKmz65Of2vMKD7GJ6XjjC5a5bUvNYtIr5y/2FiOkbknfTpm2Z03PZH9zV6utMWesfrDBRWCES1wtYQ12os2ooBLpYqIdaOqreUy/1OE7Ij5QpaLOwar8U4TX8cnh4w==;10:HrpA74jYBSqFqA2Hm3YC7Gx2qlrHe4ZuIkAd6f6YBtDXjH6MbByBqfk75QbmRqMbyCQgP2kDdRCOKVX8jQjNjSAYM4RxR/ZT5Vt/0Mjp6WM=;6:qR6jndwn1bV2DhoAkNDS7Tg0FIbp5jNrfK9VJjkneiIa+p/5/mdJRGdfIQyHFfDu x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN3PR03MB1432; x-o365ent-eop-header: Message processed by - O365_ENT: Allow from ranges (Engineering ONLY) x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(601004)(2401001)(520003)(5005006)(3002001);SRVR:BN3PR03MB1432;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN3PR03MB1432; x-forefront-prvs: 060166847D x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(377454003)(51704005)(24454002)(479174004)(19580405001)(110136002)(107886002)(106116001)(87936001)(76576001)(189998001)(62966003)(54356999)(77156002)(2656002)(93886004)(5001960100002)(2501003)(99286002)(77096005)(2950100001)(2900100001)(2351001)(5002640100001)(122556002)(74316001)(40100003)(46102003)(92566002)(76176999)(450100001)(86362001)(33656002)(19580395003)(102836002)(50986999)(66066001)(86612001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;SCL:1;SRVR:BN3PR03MB1432;H:BN3PR03MB1430.namprd03.prod.outlook.com;FPR:;SPF:None;MLV:sfv;LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 08 Jun 2015 17:23:00.4906 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR03MB1432 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by delorie.com id t58HNGIh022149 We're hearing more and more need for something like this, not just a hidden console window but a proper bifurcation between a console server and client so to speak. I'll add the POSIX pty idea to our backlog for when we start reviewing the overall requests in this area. --Rich -----Original Message----- From: Corinna Vinschen [mailto:corinna-cygwin AT cygwin DOT com] Sent: Monday, June 8, 2015 4:49 AM To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Cc: Rich Eizenhoefer Subject: Re: From Microsoft: Windows 10 Console and Cygwin On Jun 2 14:49, Warren Young wrote: > On Jun 2, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > > > > On 06/02/2015 10:37 AM, Rich Eizenhoefer wrote: > >> Can you provide more detail on changing isatty function to support Cygwin PTY's? I need to be able to support the request in our backlog. > > > > As long as we are wishing, it would be awesome if Windows natively > > supported ptys as actual objects, instead of making cygwin have to > > emulate them on top of other objects. > > In my ignorance of how ptys map to Windows console objects, I held off from asking for this when Mr. Eizenhoefer solicited ideas, but this is what I thought of at that time, too. > > In other words, this notion of “virtual terminals” is already implemented multiple times, following a standard that specifies the expected semantics — POSIX — so why not just do that? > > Why, in the end, can Windows *not* have ptys? That's a good question. Basically Windows console handles are kind of one half of the equation. They don't follow the expected semantics but they are what native Windows tools know and expect. Opening up the other half of the equation, the server side, without forcing to start conhost, might be enough to allow emulating POSIX ptys. But I agree, real ptys with POSIX semantics would be cool. Corinna -- Corinna Vinschen Please, send mails regarding Cygwin to Cygwin Maintainer cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Red Hat