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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:12:09 -0500
From: "Larry Hall (Cygwin)" <reply-to-list-only-lh AT cygwin DOT com>
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To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: Re: A device driver as BLODA?
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On 2/5/2014 12:39 PM, Richard AT KarmannGhia DOT org wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> For weeks I've been pondering all the troubles I've had with setup, spurred
> by all the conversations that have happened recently about packaging, etc,
> and the occasional comments about BLODA. I have sometimes figured Cygwin's
> setup program is a member of BLODA - it certainly has been anything but
> reliable in my personal experience. And all too often it's between me and my
> enjoyment of Cygwin. (I maintain a fleet of Windows boxes with Cygwin, no
> two of which are identical.)
>
> I've forgotten who wrote it, but I especially appreciated the email in my
> in-box this morning about how to tell when Cygwin installation scripts go
> wrong, where the list of scripts is, etc, because, frankly, when a Cygwin
> installation goes wrong (and when doesn't it?) I seldom have time to track
> down exactly why - I just try, try again, with different versions until it
> works or I give up and try another day. (One MAJOR headache here is the
> download process, no fixed starting point to know you got everything.)
> ...And so it was this morning I decided to re-convince myself I didn't have
> any BLODA problems... MAYBE all those issues "weren't Cygwin's fault?"

Toiling in obscurity and the occasional vent here and at other outlets
is fine but if you're having some problems you can't figure out,
it could be worth your while to post specifics of your problem
and/or search the email archives for similar problems/solutions, ideas,
etc.  In addition, if you have allot of machines on which you've installed
Cygwin, you may have some interesting observations to report about the
kinds of problems you see on which OSs, mirrors, software versions, etc.
Your observations and details may be useful input for someone else searching
for a solution to the same problem.

> I was surprised to find "ATI Catalyst", and even MORE surprised to find
> "NVIDIA GeForce" on the list, both as "some versions".
>
> I haven't any idea why the Catalyst product would want to hook into things
> that would interfere with Cygwin, but I did have problems with it - it would
> crash the machine sometimes! - so I deleted it.

Yes, this can be cranky and isn't a required install so it's often better
to just avoid it.

> But the description, "NVIDIA GeForce" has me a bit confused because I
> thought that was the maker's name for a series of video cards (hardware) and
> possibly the device drivers that enable them to do magic things, like
> provide a display consisting of six monitors as my "desktop." ...I use this
> hardware! And, certainly, I use the NVIDIA drivers for it.
>
> This raises two primary questions (and a few related ones):
>
> 1) How can I confirm I do or don't have an NVIDIA GeForce BLODA issue? (Is
> there really a device driver level issue?) And;

If Cygwin is running and you're not seeing complaints (generally
fork-related) while you're using it, then it's a pretty good indication
that you don't have BLODA.  For more information on BLODA symptoms,
see the FAQ - <http://cygwin.com/faq/faq.html#faq.using.bloda>.

> 2) Might "we, the community" develop a BLODA-checker to help the
> installation process? I'm thinking that whenever a new item is discovered to
> put on the BLODA list, a small "here's how you know you have this software"
> script is written that could become a part of the Cygwin install process.
> There's already a script walker for scripts in a directory - maybe it could
> be harnessed to run a list of BLODA-checkers. Sure, there's a back-log of
> already known BLODA, most of which I have never even heard of before
> (probably not alone on that!), but if we can have scripts created on an
> on-going basis - say, when new BLODA are discovered and put on the list -
> eventually the backlog would get caught up...

This is a very fluid area as the list of software that can cause these
problems varies over time.  Generally speaking, the list contains apps
that are installed on the system and show up in the Windows list of
installed apps (i.e. "Add/Remove Programs" or "Programs and Features").
But I'm certain no one would object to someone supplementing the current
list with more information and/or utilities to make this all easier for
users that run across this issue.  Ideally, we'd really like it if this
list would shrink and disappear but I doubt we're going to see that.

> Given all the complaints out there about the installation / setup process, I
> have to believe that I'm far from alone in thinking that there's likely a
> strong link between installation troubles and BLODA.....

Certainly if there is BLODA on your system, the installation process has the
potential to trip over it because there are scripts run as part of the
process that use Cygwin utilities.  In addition, there's the potential
problem of DLL address-space collisions which becomes more noticeable as
the number of packages you install grows.  The symptoms of this are similar
(see <http://cygwin.com/faq/faq.html#faq.using.fixing-fork-failures>),
particularly in an install, as the scripts could again trip up as a result.
Conventional wisdom for getting a successful first install suggests that
you pick the minimum number of additional packages you need (or don't
pick any at all).  Let the install do its thing and then come back for
more if you need it.  This can help.  64-bit Cygwin has the potential
to ameliorate the address-space collision issue too but wouldn't obviously
be a way to combat BLODA unfortunately.

-- 
Larry

_____________________________________________________________________

A: Yes.
 > Q: Are you sure?
 >> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.
 >>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?

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