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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2014 16:19:58 +0400
From: Andrey Repin <anrdaemon AT yandex DOT ru>
Reply-To: Andrey Repin <cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
Message-ID: <758909425.20140124161958@mtu-net.ru>
To: BGINFO4X <bginfo4x AT kztsoftware DOT com>, cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: Re: AdminCygwin Release
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Greetings, BGINFO4X!

>>>> I still think this is a bad idea.  I know what you're trying to do.  You
>>>> are basically trying to provide a solution using tools that you more or
>>>> less understand rather than trying to work within the existing
>>>> (admittedly crude) release structure to provide benefit to everyone who
>>>> uses Cygwin.
>>
>>> I'm sorry, but this is not true: I only want to give comunity a "base
>>> package" of something that I already have.
>>
>> It is Cygwin providing a base package, that you have.
>> The key word is "providing", means, it's already available to the community.
>> What you want to do is to repackage and redistribute what is already packaged
>> and distributed. Doing fool's work, don't you think?
>>
>>> At least on my opinion, as an administrator, has very sense to have a
>>> "bash windows" in a "nerd-msi" installable form.
>>
>> I don't understand your inclination with MSI first

> It is simple:

> a) give setup.exe to a non-tech "man/woman" and tell him/her: please,
> can you install bash? And see what happens ... 95% will fail.

That's your problem that you created just now for yourself.
Giving "tech" instructions to a "non-tech" people.
When I ask people to install Cygwin, I just give them a link to setup.exe and
tell to run it without any headcracking instructions. Just "Next-Next-Next"
will suffice for most cases.
If I need them to perform more complex actions, I will tell them how to do it.
99% people is capable of following the simple and precise instructions.

> b) give for example bginfo4x.msi to a non-tech "man/woman" and tell
> him/her: please, can you install it? And see what happens ... 95% will
> succeed.

And fail to realize what they did, and where to look for help.
Your problem is that you are trying to solve social problem (your inability to
give correct instructions to your intended users) with technical solutions (MSI).
In my case, the success rate is 99%. Just because I do not create more work
for user. Instead, I spend a little more time doing my own homework and
produce correct instructions to the user. Perhaps, making some tools for him
to do the job faster/easier.
How to solve your problem the right way, people already said, multiple times.
Another troubling moment is that you, like everyone the later days, are trying
to dumb down and conceal the process, that should remain transparent.
User need to know, that he's installing multiple different packages, provided
by different authors. It may be not obvious, and not need to be explicit, but
user need a simple and transparent way to confirm his actions.

>>, and Cygwin does NOT play by Windows rules, second.

> IMHO: This is a problem that "cygwin people" should solve.

This is an intended goal, not a problem.
If you want Windows application, check MSYS.
Please, for the first time, familiarize yourself with Cygwin.
It's even written in big letters on the project home page.

>> Cygwin, per definition, adapt Linux, not Windows, paradigm, and may be VERY
>> destructive, if not installed correctly. 

> I know it.


--
WBR,
Andrey Repin (anrdaemon AT yandex DOT ru) 24.01.2014, <16:03>

Sorry for my terrible english...


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