X-Recipient: archive-cygwin AT delorie DOT com
X-SWARE-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.2 required=5.0 	tests=AWL,BAYES_20
X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:01:25 -0500
From: Brian Ford <Brian DOT Ford AT FlightSafety DOT com>
Reply-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: Re: add -debuginfo packages
In-Reply-To: <20090821210422.GE15033@ednor.casa.cgf.cx>
Message-ID: <Pine.CYG.4.58.0908241339290.1388@PC1163-8460-XP.flightsafety.com>
References: <6910a60908041158p10fa632cvc2f21524e33b74ce AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>   <4A8DDEE8 DOT 2050606 AT users DOT sourceforge DOT net>  <20090821001702 DOT GA15308 AT ednor DOT casa DOT cgf DOT cx>   <Pine DOT CYG DOT 4 DOT 58 DOT 0908211026060 DOT 1388 AT PC1163-8460-XP DOT flightsafety DOT com>  <20090821210422 DOT GE15033 AT ednor DOT casa DOT cgf DOT cx>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
X-IsSubscribed: yes
Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
List-Id: <cygwin.cygwin.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:cygwin-unsubscribe-archive-cygwin=delorie DOT com AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:cygwin-subscribe AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Archive: <http://sourceware.org/ml/cygwin/>
List-Post: <mailto:cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
List-Help: <mailto:cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com>, <http://sourceware.org/ml/#faqs>
Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com
Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com

On Fri, 21 Aug 2009, Christopher Faylor wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:28:13AM -0500, Brian Ford wrote:
> >On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Christopher Faylor wrote:
> >>How many people here are capable of firing up a debugger to decode
> >>problems?
> >
> >A lot more if they don't have to go through the pain of downloading
> >source code and figuring out how to correctly build the package.  You'd
> >get better bug reports faster I think.  How many times have you
> >requested a more refined test case because you didn't want to have to
> >build perl in order to debug it?
>
> You're incorrect in thinking that I'll stop asking for refined test
> cases just because perl debugging info is available.  I'm perfectly
> capable of building perl myself if I thought it was necessary.  I am
> even capable of debugging perl.

I didn't mean to imply either of those things; poor wording choice on my
part I guess.

> I don't want to do any of that.

That was my point; neither do I.  But having that debug info readily
available to me would make it much simpler to produce one of those STCs.
Often, one such simple clue is enough to distill the necessary STC.

> I want the maintainers to be capable enough to narrow down a test case
> to help spread the burden of debugging around.

I agree, but I would like to spread it around even further by making it
simpler for capable users under time constraints to be more productive.

> I've already made the cost benefit analysis of the .5% of people who
> would find this useful

I would expect that to be closer to 5%, but anyway...

> vs.  the amount of time it would take me to implement in upset and
> potentially setup.exe,

I failed to consider the volunteer impact required to support these two in
my request.

> the amount of time it would take package maintainers (like me) to
> implement,

Especially with cygport, I wouldn't expect that to be much.

> the amount of extra disk space it would take on sourceware, the amount
> of extra net bandwidth that would be consumed by mirror traffic and the
> amount of extra cygwin mailing list "do I need this?" traffic we'd see.
> I appreciate the thought that went into the proposal but I don't think
> this is something that we want to waste limited cygwin volunteer
> resources to support.

Yes, you clearly expressed that opinion the last time this topic was
raised so I already understood your position.  I just disagree with the
premise.

-- 
Brian Ford
Staff Realtime Software Engineer
VITAL - Visual Simulation Systems
FlightSafety International
the best safety device in any aircraft is a well-trained crew...

--
Problem reports:       http://cygwin.com/problems.html
FAQ:                   http://cygwin.com/faq/
Documentation:         http://cygwin.com/docs.html
Unsubscribe info:      http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple