To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
From: Robert Pendell <shinji+gmane AT elite-systems DOT org>
Subject:  Re: A question on cygcheck
Date:  Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:52:08 -0500
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Message-ID: <fkgugj$m5s$1@ger.gmane.org>
References:  <476AEF95 DOT 2050404 AT alice DOT it>  <047d01c84376$aac6b410$2e08a8c0 AT CAM DOT ARTIMI DOT COM> <476B3499 DOT 473C0D29 AT dessent DOT net> <2/4aHx3lQPWE092yn AT verizon DOT net>
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Jeff wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:35:53 -0800,
> Brian Dessent <brian[at]dessent[dot]net> wrote:
> 
>> Dave Korn wrote:
>>
>>>   Same reason as strace, I would assume: it's a DOS-based program,
>>>   not a cygwin one.
>> I think you mean "it's a MSVCRT-based program" 
> 
> I guess that's one way to describe them. I've heard them described as
> "native Win32 console-mode" programs-- I do not know if any of those
> exist which are /not/ based on msvcrt so, perhaps these descriptions
> are synonymous.
> 
>> since DOS hasn't existed in Windows in the last approx. 7 years.
> 
> I don't know about the 7 years part (are you saying they no longer
> support ME?), but DOS /support/ still exists in XP by way of ntvdm.exe,
> the "NT Virtual DOS Machine." I still use a few DOS (full screen
> curses-like) utilities that have regretably not been ported to Win32.
> 
> I've heard that DOS support is completely discontinued in Vista,
> though-- only one of many reasons not to "upgrade."

I should rephrase for him.  TRUE dos support is non-existant anymore.
This started with Windows XP.  ntvdm as you described is a virtual dos
machine which means it emulates dos.  Windows ME restricted access to it
(you couldn't actually get to a true dos mode).  The whole original
Windows NT line was without any dos support at all.  Not even emulated.
 Check cmd versus command sometime in XP.  You will note that even the
dir command is slower in the ntvdm than it is in a native prompt.

> 
>> (And now if I could only get people to stop incorrectly referring to a
>> NT/2k/XP/Vista command prompt a DOS prompt... and I also want a pony.)
> 
> You don't think big enough. :) I want a percheron-thoroughbred cross
> like my last good buddy of that lineage-- 2,000 lbs. worth of quiet
> friendship...
> 

Wha?  I'll take a dragon thank you.
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