X-Spam-Check-By: sourceware.org Message-ID: X-Sender: marchywka AT hotmail DOT com In-Reply-To: <20061028055933.GA19517@trixie.casa.cgf.cx> From: "Mike Marchywka" To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Subject: Re: Cygintl-3.dll was not found Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 07:37:06 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-IsSubscribed: yes Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Note-from-DJ: This may be spam Couple of comments: 1) Please find my post on cygwin-talk that was inappropriate for this list, for "real-life" applications of cygwin and programming languages for non-programmers ( this is far from being a tool confined to "academic" interests). Even for non-programmers who don't want to learn regex's, most tasks could be performed with a quick e-mail to a "programmer" ( many open sources would probably answer a question requiring a one line answer but not write a whole text processing program ) 2) I think everyone has spent some learning time cursing at sed- " why did the [ insert term here ] did it do that?" 3) You could, for comparison, go get the java sdk which is also free and comes with a compiler- I used to use java before getting realizing scripting languages are much better a large class of tasks. The java package is more self contained and better documented ( and java is a "safer" language with more run-time diagnostics). I have a lot of sympathy with the sentiment ( personally I find swearing at code like cheering at a sporting event- quite enjoyable sometimes ) but I have been advocating cygwin ( or actually command line text processing ) to a larger, less technical audience. Perhaps if enough of these people come to appreciate the power and COMPARATIVELY short learning curve, resources ( time or money ) would become available to produce new tools to make things nicer. Personally, setup.exe annoys me but it does seem to make cygwin install "one-stop shopping." I didn't bother looking at the thread beyond this message but is this a high school project? I learned programming in junior high, I'm curious to see how things are evolving. Thanks. ( note new address as of 10-06) Mike Marchywka 586 Saint James Walk Marietta GA 30067-7165r ( NOTE MORE NEWER NUMBER ) 404-788-1216 (C)<- leave message 989-348-4796 (P)<- emergency only >From: Christopher Faylor >Reply-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com >To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com >Subject: Re: Cygintl-3.dll was not found >Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2006 01:59:33 -0400 > >On Fri, Oct 27, 2006 at 06:41:51PM -0700, infoterror wrote: > >gdiviney wrote: > >>A one-hour compiler class assignment has become an all-day goose-hunt. > >>Thanks Cygwin developers! Maybe someday I???ll have the opportunity to > >>waste an entire day of your lives. If it weren???t for schools, your > >>aberrant work would have been forgotten long ago. > > > >Agreed. > >So you, infoterror, are also a student? That's interesting. > >Given the number of people in this mailing list from companies who run >Cygwin, it's hard to see how you could have any basis for your opinion. > > >While I like the idea of free software, and giving things away free, I > >think they should be done sensibly and pragmatically. Saving people > >time is fine. Writing off all complaints with "well, it's free, what > >did you expect?" is the same kind of crass capitalism I see in the > >pornography flooding the internet. > >Hmm. Now I really understand why your opinion of Cygwin is so low if >you equate giving away software and volunteering time with "capitalism". > >Incidentally, your statement that "all complaints" are written off is >provably untrue. Even this resurrected thread shows people who are >willing to help with problems. > >What is true about free software is that you, as the user of same, would >be best advised to be deferential and factual if you desire help. It >makes no sense to be insulting. If the software doesn't meet your needs >or doesn't seem to work then outrage is not really, IMO, a pragmatic >response since you could easily alienate the people who could help you. > >If you didn't really want help then there doesn't seem to be much point >in sending a negative message at all other than to vent - especially in >this case since you and gdiviney both seem to be novices when it comes to >Cygwin and could easily expose ignorance about the project. It hardly >seems worthwhile to send opionated email only to have people discredit >your opinions when you make a misstatement. > > >Also, the open source community is quite insular, and doesn't accept > >advice well from outsiders in all instances. > >It's been noted many times that most free software is meritocracy based >and is driven by people who actually do the work. Reading "advice" from >email voices who claim deep knowledge or vast years of experience is >just tedious chore given the fact that it's possible for you to actually >do real work and demonstrate your superior methods. Expecting people to >take advice from a faceless (and in your case anonymous) voice, just on >the voice's say-so, does not, once again, seem very pragmatic to me. >There are too many people with conflicting ideas out there who know that >they are geniuses. You can't listen to all of them. > > >Even when we volunteer, for example, technical writing skills or > >project management experience. If it weren't for the somewhat > >unrealistic responses I've seen from open sourcers, I probably would be > >one. > >The Cygwin project would welcome additional or improved documentation. >Please do dazzle us with your technical writing skills. > >cgf > >-- >Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple >Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html >Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html >FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ > _________________________________________________________________ Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from Microsoft Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/