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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Peter A. Castro" <doctor AT fruitbat DOT org>
To: Brad King <brad DOT king AT kitware DOT com>
cc: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: Re: sshd and /usr/bin/zsh
In-Reply-To: <42714EA3.3070802@kitware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0504281441120.5136@gremlin.fruitbat.org>
References: <4270FD0F DOT 8030702 AT kitware DOT com> <Pine DOT GSO DOT 4 DOT 61 DOT 0504281356070 DOT 1962 AT slinky DOT cs DOT nyu DOT edu> <42714EA3 DOT 3070802 AT kitware DOT com>
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005, Brad King wrote:

> Christopher Faylor wrote:
>> On Thu, Apr 28, 2005 at 02:53:09PM -0400, Brad King wrote:
>>> Oops, sorry.  My eyes scrolled through the left column of the web page
>>> and found "FAQ".  When the problem was not in the FAQ I went back and
>>> scrolled up and found "Mailing Lists" before noticing the "Reporting
>>> Problems" link.  I suggest you add a link to
>>> http://cygwin.com/problems.html from http://cygwin.com/lists.html in the
>>> description of when posting to the main cygwin list is okay.
>> Yeah, we should <http://cygwin.com/problems.html> probably 
>> http://cygwin.com/problems.html> have <http://cygwin.com/problems.html> 
>> known better <http://cygwin.com/problems.html> than to think 
>> <http://cygwin.com/problems.html> that anyone 
>> http://cygwin.com/problems.html> would read 
>> <http://cygwin.com/problems.html> the left bar

Oh, don't let Chris's barbs get to you.  He's just a little (ok, a lot :)
annoyed at what seems like most peoples lack of "attention to detail" :)
See:
 	http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#CGF
and	http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#BWAM
and	http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#WJM

> Heh :)
>
> I agree that there are plenty of places where this link appears. However, 
> just the fact that you replied in this manner tells me that this is a common 
> mistake by users.  In my case I made an honest attempt to post properly (I 
> run several mailing lists so I understand the problem).  What I described was 
> a reasonable path to get to the mailing list in which I never saw the link. 
> I then suggested a way to plug the hole in this path to save you and others 
> this trouble in the future.

Using the Cygwin mailing lists aren't for the faint of heart.  A review
of the mail archives for posts which have many, many, many followups
might be enlightening of the general attitude one should expect from this
community.
Did I mention to look at http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#WJM ?

> Most projects I've seen have the following desired policy for posting to a 
> list:
>
> 1.) Read the FAQ
> 2.) Read the mailing list policy
> 3.) Post to the list
>
> Here is what happens when I follow this policy on the cygwin page:
>
> 1.) I find the FAQ link in the left column.  The FAQ does not help my 
> problem.
>
> 2.) I go back to the front page and my eyes scroll up from FAQ looking for 
> mailing lists.  Since the link for reporting problems is above mailing lists 
> I get to the mailing list link first.  This is how I missed the link on the 
> front page.

Well, there's the problem right there.  No, right *there*... no, no,
right *THERE*!  Gosh darn it!  The thing keeps moving around!  Stop it!

Well, anyway, it might help if the main cygwin webpages make the link to
"Reporting Problems" appear in big, bold, flashing, neon (Chris, can we
do that?).  That way the first thing people will do is report a problem,
even before reading the web page!

> 3.)  I follow the mailing list link and the page starts with
>  "Is there a mailing list for the project?
>   Yes. There are several. They are listed below."
> I scroll through the mailing list page looking for the set of available lists 
> mentioned at the top.  This is how I missed the link in the middle of the 8 
> paragraphs of text.  I see a "cygwin" list and read its policy, which has a 
> nice set of bullet points.  There is no mention of the problems page here. 
> This is where I suggest it be added.
>
> 4.) I send a message to the list without subscribing and it works.  This is 
> how I missed the link included in the welcome message.

Well, don't take our little jabs too seriously.  Unless, they are from
cgf concerning coding, documentation, scripts, legal issues or policy,
and then take them very seriously! :)

Did I mention to look at http://cygwin.com/acronyms/#WJM ?

> -Brad

-- 
Peter A. Castro <doctor AT fruitbat DOT org> or <Peter DOT Castro AT oracle DOT com>
 	"Cats are just autistic Dogs" -- Dr. Tony Attwood

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