Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Sensitivity: Subject: RE: Source code for binaries offered at http: //thinstall.com/unix_tools ? To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com From: Brian DOT Kelly AT empireblue DOT com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 13:56:13 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 13386A4A2601590-01-03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As long as the *complete* binary contents can be extracted then I would essentially agree that Thininstall is fundamentally no different than an ordinary zip archive. No one has implied to my knowledge - especially me - that you were *actually* "selling" unix_tools - but that there certainly would be issues if one ever contemplated selling a binary of any kind that contained GPL'd software - even if the GPL'd software was used only to install a separate package and did not constitute the functionality actually being "sold". And while being able to put unix_tools on a floppy is a cool thing, from a legal standpoint, anyone who permanently passes that floppy or makes a copy for others to use is in fact "distributing" GPL'd software and must also have the exact source *readily* available - i.e., on the floppy or archived within the Thininstall created binary (or "archive" if one so pleases) itself. Of course anyone who creates their own floppy for their own use is exempted. Brian Kelly "Jonathan Clark" @cygwin.com on 07/29/2003 12:47:59 PM Sent by: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com cc: (bcc: Brian Kelly/WTC1/Empire) Subject: RE: Source code for binaries offered at http: //thinstall.com/unix_tools ? I will write up some documentation soon about the GPL issue, but a quick clarification: 1. Some emails have mentioned unix_tools as being commercial and that I have customers who "purchased" it. unix_tools is free (as in beer), always has been, always will be - it is something I made to be a handy tool and to show off the power of Thinstall and make freely available at no charge. I've found a lot of people find it is a handy utility to have on hand, especially since it is runnable from a floppy. I realize the fact that unix_tools is free does not change any GPL issues, but just wanted to point this out. 2. Thinstall does not modify the binary structure (i.e. bytes) of files it "links" together other than to provide compression. In this manner it's no different from zip or tar. All files can be copied from the compressed file system to hard drive with their exact original contents. This is easily demonstrated by running the bash example and typing the command "cp -R * /cygdrive/c". The term "link" is used in documentation to illustrate the point that the files may be used without extracting to disk - however in fact, there is no link between any files except that they are all located in the same archive. "compile", "link", etc are used as marketing terms to illustrate this is new technology - not a self-extracting ZIP where files must first be copied outside the archive - but Thinstall in no way resembles a compiler or linker at the implementation level. The Thinstall OS is able to run EXEs and load DLLs both inside and outside of the archive. Simply running an GPLed EXE located on in a compressed filesystem can not invoke GPL on the loading OS or most operating systems would fall under this umbrella. Likewise, having an OS located in the same archive as GPL software would not somehow require it to be GPLed or we could open source Windows tomorrow because I do this all the time with VMWare. :) Thinstall works with all EXEs, DLLs, and files, and has no direct tie or dependency on any GPL software or components. More user-info related to this discussion: http://thinstall.com/help/index.html?virtualoperatingsystem.htm (The OS) http://thinstall.com/help/createprocessshellexecuteo.htm (Loading external EXEs) http://thinstall.com/help/index.html?externaldllloading.htm (Loading external DLLs) Best Regards, Jonathan Clark -----Original Message----- From: Williams, Gerald S (Jerry) [mailto:gsw AT agere DOT com] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 4:58 AM To: jclark AT jitit DOT com Cc: Brian DOT Kelly AT Empireblue DOT com Subject: RE: Source code for binaries offered at http://thinstall.com/ ? Brian Kelly wrote: > Please, seek out and consult with an experienced software and > intellectual property rights attorney at your earliest possible > opportunity. You've got a very nifty little utility, but then > again, so did Napster. [ ... ] > I know enough to see that there are lot of legal issues you > have not investigated in depth - and I STRONGLY advise that you > do so with the assistance of an experienced counselor. Jonathan, I don't want to tie up our mailing lists with this, and I'm sure the GPL licensing lists address it better, but please listen to him if you haven't already done so. Your online help indicates that Thinstall *links* target libraries, executables, and such. That certainly sounds like it would trigger the GPL (i.e., everything else you link into that executable would have to fall within the GPL guidelines). Personally, I'd get something in writing from the FSF or RMS or somebody saying that this doesn't trigger the GPL, refer to that fact liberally throughout the help file, *and* change the wording to make it read more like creating a self-extracting archive (even though it may be linking the files underneath). gsw P.S. It really does look like a neat program you've got. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ "WellChoice, Inc." made the following annotations on 07/29/2003 01:58:29 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Attention! This electronic message contains information that may be legally confidential and/or privileged. The information is intended solely for the individual or entity named above and access by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Release/Disclosure Statement -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/