Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Sensitivity: Subject: Re: Source code for binaries offered at http://thinstall.com/ ? To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com From: Brian DOT Kelly AT empireblue DOT com Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:53:33 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-WSS-ID: 1338B1582561461-01-03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My concern is that issues surrounding Mr. Clark's use of cygwin goes well beyond just supplying source on his website. It appears that the raison d'etre for his software is to simplfy software distribution, and "can up" processes and process combinations for very tailored purposes - a worthwhile endeavor. However, looking at it from a different angle, what he's actually done is create a kind of super compiler that "links" executables together as if they were methods that one would find in the cygwin1.dll. In fact, neither he nor anyone else can run bash without the cygwin1.dll. By "slurping" up the cygwin1.dll into a proprietary binary structure and combining it not only with the proprietary environment that enables it's operation, but potentially with other standalone binary utilities that may run the gamut from open source, to shareware to extremely proprietary - i.e - one license per machine for sequential, not simultaneous processing only - how does that differ conceptually from a compiler linking a proprietary method with a cygwin method found in the cygwin1.dll into a stand-alone executable??? Such a use - if one hopes to distribute such a binary for a fee - requires a contractual agreement with Red Hat, along with payment of a rather NOT insignificant (if I may say so myself) licensing fee. This utility looks like a great way to "trojan horse" licensed software into a binary structure that would mask it's very existence. A pirate's dream come true perhaps - at least when used and examined by unsophisticated users - which make up the vast majority. This is why I urged Mr. Clark to consult an experienced attorney. He needs to inform his user base that licensing restrictions apply to everything bundled with his utility - and even if the final executable is not sold for a fee, but distributed in such a way that the stand-alone executable may change hands many times, it may even be necessary that the source for any and all GPL'd software be included IN the executable itself in such a way that it can be exported to a text file with a command line switch. Certainly including the source on a distribution cd and the website goes a long way towards satisfying this requirement. However, one way such a binary would be useful would be in a process "chain" - where the bundle actually is used to support a distributed operation B2B, over the internet, etc. In such a chain the final package would arrive after traveling through many "highways". Traversing such journeys with "source in tow" may not always be practical. Furthermore, new and uneducated recipient's of such an executable NEED to know about it's contents, the licensing restrictions of those contents, and prohibitions of duplicating the bundled executable without satisfying ALL licensing restrictions of ALL its contents - INCLUDING the distribution of source for any and all bundled GPL software. Brian Kelly "Christopher Faylor" @cygwin.com on 07/28/2003 11:19:04 PM Please respond to cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Sent by: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com cc: (bcc: Brian Kelly/WTC1/Empire) Subject: Re: Source code for binaries offered at http://thinstall.com/ ? On Mon, Jul 28, 2003 at 10:12:07PM -0400, Jon A. Lambert wrote: >From: "Carlo Florendo" >> From: "Jonathan Clark" >> Subject: RE: Source code for binaries offered at http://thinstall.com/ ? >> >> > Hello Max, >> > >> > This is a good point. I have the source downloaded and in backups somewhere >> > around here - so it can be located if needed. While I'm in the process of >> > putting together a new archive that contains more GPL disclaimers (and more >> > utilities), I wish to be in compliance by offering a CDROM for those that >> > desire it. >> > >> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#SourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites >> > >GPL > 3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, >under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of >Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following: >... >b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This would require sending a written offer to every person who purchases your software. "Written" is not email. It's an actual letter. I'll say it again: We have consulted with experts. The FSF FAQ entry is really correct here. If you are offering binaries on a web site, you need to offer sources on the web site, too. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Problem reports: http://cygwin.com/problems.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/ "WellChoice, Inc." made the following annotations on 07/29/2003 08:55:49 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Attention! 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