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From: "Martin Gainty" <mgainty AT hotmail DOT com>
To: <greywolf AT the-junkyard DOT net>, "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz AT cris DOT com>,
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Subject: Re: For The Record: HTML Email on the Internet; RFC 2557
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:36:50 -0700
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chalres grey wolf Banas" <greywolf AT the-junkyard DOT net>
To: "Randall R Schulz" <rrschulz AT cris DOT com>; <cygwin AT cygwin DOT com>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: For The Record: HTML Email on the Internet; RFC 2557


> On Thu, 10 Apr 2003 17:04:25 -0700, Randall R Schulz <rrschulz AT cris DOT com>
> wrote:
>
> > Max,
> >
> > At 16:26 2003-04-10, you wrote:
> >>
> >> There's nothing wrong with HTML mail when used tastefully and in a way
> >> which
> >> enhances communication.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, a lot (most?) of the time, HTML mail is used in such a
> >> way
> >> that it detracts from the content of the message and is simply a
> >> needless
> >> bandwidth sucker.
> >
> > As to taste, the pattern that typically presents itself is that when a
> > new, richer mode of expression becomes widely available is that they get
> > a little crazy at first. Soon enough, however, they settle down to
> > reasonably moderate usage. Desktop publishing showed this phenomenon
with
> > excessive use of multiple fonts, font variation and other goo-gaws. You
> > don't see much of that any more.
> >
> email from mom.  she has used email for 6 months.  she sends unreadable
> pink text.
>
> your argument becomes moot when you consider all the necomers to email who
> consistently use unreadable fonts and colors.
>
> though i do see your point.
>
> > I'm unsympathetic to the bandwidth waste argument. There's abundant
> > bandwidth on the Internet (in fact, there's a lot of dark fiber out
there
> > just waiting to be used). I have only a dial-up modem and I have no
> > trouble doing the usual Internet browsing (in fact, probably more than
> > usual, and I'm a bit of troller, actually--as in trolling for resources
> > as a fisherman trolls for fish, that is). On top of my Web use, I get
> > upward of 500 email messages each day including the distributions of 25
> > mailing lists. Except for the 100 or so that are spam (I kid you not), I
> > save them all.
> >
> as do i.  though, i've moved up to cable.  (before that, DSL.)  some
people
> (i'm sure even on this list) dial up to a long-distance number or get
> chaged per megabyte they use.  sucks for them when they need access to a
> list like this and they have to deal with emails that jack up their bill
> sky-high.
>
> or what about people using palm pilots who can't read fancy emails?  or
the
> system administrators who use Pine to remotely read their email because
> they don't have the ability to use a remote client?
>
> you'd be jacking them all by sending HTML.  parsing bad HTML that clients
> like Outlook output is painful.
>
> > By far most of the HTML mail is UCE. Some of that is grotesque (not for
> > its message content, but for its presentation) but even the spam is
> > mostly decent HTML. For the few pieces of mail that I actually solicit
in
> > HTML mode (newsletters such as those published by the Java Developer
> > Connection or WinXPnews or the New Scientist newsletter) I enable the
> > Microsoft viewer in Eudora. Otherwise for simple font variations,
bullets
> > and indents, Eudora's built-in rendering is fine (though not without its
> > glitches).
> >
> case in point.  it's annoying.  you've said so yourself, though not in so
> many words.  you have to configure your client to use the MS parser or
else
> it's a little buggy.  that'd be enough to annoy me.
>
> i solicit several newsletters, but i get them plaintext.  why?  my client
> of choice, Opera 7, does not display embedded images in email
(backgrounds,
> the <img> tag, etc.).  i like that.  i want it to stay that way.  so, i
get
> my newsletters in plaintext so they actually display right.  if HTML is
the
> only option, then suck.  i don't need it.
>
> it's my choice and i stick by it.  you're forcing your opinion on us.
>
> > A decent dial-up modem (by which I mean a well-designed v.92 modem) will
> > compress HTML to the point where 10 to 11 kilobytes per second
throughput
> > is readily achieved. This is almost twice the speed that most of the
> > links in the original ARPAnet used (not that it's very significant--I
> > just think it's interesting).
> >
> interesting, but useless information.  it bears no meaning to your
> argument.  besides, not everyone is on a connection clean enough to
> transfer at full speed, or their ISP doesn't have support yet for v.92.
> sorry, it's a moot point.
>
> >
> > Randall Schulz
> >
>
> --
> Charles "grey wolf" Banas
> http://the-junkyard.net  tech advisor
>
> --
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>
>
If you're going to choke on HTML what happens when someone sends you a
schema in XML??
HTML (and XML) are here to stay and DHTML is on its way to replacing the
Static Tags of HTML..
I would suggest a High speed connection which is essential to conducting
business
today or if you're stuck with Modulator Demodulators then Multilink your
modems to dual 33.3 Analog
Martin

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