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From: "lhall AT pop DOT ma DOT ultranet DOT com" <lhall AT pop DOT ma DOT ultranet DOT com>
To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: RE: Added setup.exe to User's Guide
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 10:11:50 -0500
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Hannu,

Your comments about installing Cygwin via setup using a local cache and/or
burning a CD to install from do have merit.  Can you suggest some wording
that would describe a simple process that will work well?  I think this 
would be the most hopeful and useful for inclusion.

Larry

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Hannu E K Nevalainen (garbage mail) garbage_collector AT telia DOT com
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 15:49:02 +0100
To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com
Subject: RE: Added setup.exe to User's Guide


> From: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com [mailto:cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com]On Behalf
> Of Joshua Daniel Franklin
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 08:54:11PM +0100, Hannu E K Nevalainen
> (garbage mail) wrote:
> >  Suggestions for wording changes/expansion of the text.
>
> I believe most of your suggestions assume that the user has little or
> no knowledge of Unix. I'm operating under the assumption that most new
> users have knowledge of Unix and will already have run into things like
> \r\n line endings, man, info, etc.

 IMHO my suggestions adds just that *tiny bit* of extra info that makes a
new user get the grip - without some of the FAQs.


> > -- 8< --
> > >Local Package Directory
> >  Append something like the following to the paragraph:
> > There are circumstances when it is useful to use the cache as
> "local package
> > directory" for installation on another system than the primary one.
> > This is currently NOT directly supported by setup.exe, but can
> be achieved
> > in a number of ways.
> > Information regarding this has yet to be gathered here. Currently it is
> > spread out amongst the postings on the mailing lists, especially the
> > "cygwin" list.
>
> Huh?

 Hmm...?  Why so perplexed?
I've gotten the impression that this isn't easily accomplished.

> Install Cygwin on one machine. Copy the cache to a separate machine.
> Install again. This will work fine, as long as you choose the same mirror.

 First of all; those two lines belong on the web-page.
 Second; setup.exe does not cover all situations.
 Third; It involves loads of manual work, on more than a few machines.
 Fourth; using a LAN -> high load when all machines has to be updated.

 This has been discussed throughly here on the ML. With a slant towards the
second; IMHO this needs to be mentioned, toghether with some kind of
pointers to the postings - unless it can be summarised directly.


I'm asking myself: Why do people insist on not telling about the possible
ways
to achieve this?
IMHO this is like somebody telling you that there is no such thing as "free
speech" unless you pay the license fee (Here: the bill for having high speed
Internet). Simply put: _irritating_ >;-} .


Arguments follow, feel free to skip to next comment.

My experience of
	- downloading MOST of the packages,
	- creating a CDR of the cache
	- and running setup.exe on it at home
has learnt me that it really isn't that easy in every situation.

The basis of it - is here:
- It isn't that fun to download all of cygwin over 128k/ISDN (or slower),
  you really need something faster than that.
- Not everybody has ADSL++/flat rate/eons of time for plain downloads.
- Please, also note: We have to pay in proportion to time, for beeing
online,
  over here. This escalates into unbearable bills very soon.

Example of the last:
 With minimal Internet online-time I have to pay
more than $100/month currently.
 I have no intention to increase the amount on those bills e.g. by
downloading the entire cygwin.


> To what sort of information are you referring?

 All the postings on the cygwin ML about installing without setup.exe,
creating CDR-copies of the cache _to be used as install-source_  and so on.

Am I that unclear in style of writing?
I find it alarming.
s

/Hannu E K Nevalainen, Mariefred, Sweden

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