Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT cygwin DOT com; run by ezmlm List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT cygwin DOT com From: "Paul Derbyshire" To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 14:52:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Mysterious gdb behavior. Reply-to: derbyshire AT globalserve DOT net Message-ID: <3D47F9AA.27098.64BD0B6C@localhost> In-reply-to: <4.3.1.2.20020729224432.02137ef8@pop.rcn.com> References: <4 DOT 3 DOT 1 DOT 2 DOT 20020729220853 DOT 0212d4a8 AT pop DOT rcn DOT com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body On 29 Jul 2002 at 22:45, Larry Hall (RFK Partners, Inc wrote: > >Certainly, you've jumped right in! I can see you've been quite prolific > >on the email list recently. I'm not going to swamp it, if that's what's got you worried. I got Cygwin a while back and accumulated a number of questions about it that the FAQ didn't answer over the time since. I spent a while trying to get a question (the cron problem) posted via the gmane server, but something isn't working there and I couldn't even get hold of the administrator; I eventually gave up on gmane and subscribed to the list. (For high volume stuff I prefer to use a newsgroup if possible.) By then I'd accumulated many questions to post. Hence the first "rash" of postings. One question, the gdb one, unfortunately started a debate in which I wound up having to defend myself on a few points, which has necessitated that I post a lot of replies. This has caused the second "rash". To cut down on list traffic I decided to check mail less often, so the debate would be spread more thinly over time. It doesn't seem to have worked -- I just have proportionally more to respond to each time I do check mail for some reason. But the debate is running out of steam (crosses fingers) and the initial batch of accumulated questions have all been asked. I will probably be just lurking within a week, with the odd question to ask every month or two, assuming nothing extraordinary happens. > >I am, however, concerned that you're not going to get much in the way of > >responses from knowledgeable folk on this list if you don't try to > >work with those who respond to your posts. Frankly, some of them have expectations that are way out of line. I'm not going to research every last thing to death when I'm looking for a quick fix to a specific problem and anyone who isn't willing to offer a quick fix needn't even respond to postings that ask for one. >I can see that some might see your responses as inflammatory. They're frustrated responses. Frustrated that someone keeps expecting me to solve it myself -- I wouldn't be posting to the list if I hadn't already exhausted my resources and given up trying to solve it myself; frustrated that someone who wants me to solve it myself wastes bandwidth to tell me their expectations when it doesn't contribute usefully; and frustrated that someone has posted yet another message that is hostile in tone and forces me to respond in my own defense, which in turn leads to a growing perception that I'm clogging the list with traffic -- as if I had a choice. I would like to just ignore two or three of the posters, but I can't given that they periodically post something that suggests fault on my part and that consequently requires a public correction. > >Still, it's important to recognize that the goal of this list is > >to exchange information. Yes, and some of my "rants" have been trying to tell people that in fact. I ask for information, I get told why it's wrong to ask. I ask for information, I get different information. I ask for information, I get insults. Sheesh. > >A certain healthy dose of tolerance is sometimes required to keep > >a reasonable signal to noise ratio. I am normally very tolerant, but my patience for snarky and unhelpful replies of any kind to serious and straightforward questions is short and has been exhausted lately. The snarky replies themselves betray intolerance on the part of others. I find myself wondering why this message seems directed at me, rather than at them. I can only guess that it's a "the newbie is always guilty" attitude, which would be unfortunate... > >Don't forget, this is a list of volunteers. Volunteers aren't as motivated > >to spend their "free" time trying to help folks that don't work with them. > >I only mention that because I can see how many of your recent posts (including > >this one) might be perceived by maintainers (and others) as divisive. I'd > >hate to see posts of yours on good issues go ignored because of this. Since > >you may be new to the list, I thought I'd point out how you might best get > >information you need. I'd hoped it was as simple as asking. Unfortunately, it seems it isn't. Apparently there's some kind of god-damned politics to it, and certain egos have to be stroked or something before any information will be divulged. I don't have the time or inclination to involve myself in any kind of local politics -- I just want to get straightforward answers to straightforward questions. I hope that is not too much to ask... > >I hope you find Cygwin useful and I look forward to your future contributions > >to it's continued success. I have found it useful, regardless of the appearance here. I suppose it looks like I've found it to be full of bugs and quirks -- it is, but so is any large system, and cygwin has less than other smaller ones I've seen. :) Postings here asking for help invariably come from people encountering problems, though, so you'll hear about problems more often than you will about things working perfectly -- nobody remarks upon the latter, any more than they comment on the green lights they encounter on the road even as they grumble about the red ones. -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/