Mailing-List: contact cygwin-help AT sourceware DOT cygnus DOT com; run by ezmlm List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: cygwin-owner AT sources DOT redhat DOT com Delivered-To: mailing list cygwin AT sources DOT redhat DOT com Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:26:05 -0400 From: Christopher Faylor To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Subject: Re: "shouted down", "shot down", apologies Message-ID: <20010627182605.A25447@redhat.com> Reply-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com Mail-Followup-To: cygwin AT cygwin DOT com References: <03F4742D8225D21191EF00805FE62B9908E23ED9 AT aa-msg-01 DOT medstat DOT com> <20010627164651 DOT A24718 AT redhat DOT com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.11i In-Reply-To: ; from bkeener@thesoftwaresource.com on Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:39:13PM -0400 On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:39:13PM -0400, Brian Keener wrote: >Christopher Faylor wrote: >> Well, just to backslide a little: http://cygwin.com/contrib.html , >> http://cygwin.com/cvs.html . >> >> Or, more generically http://cygwin.com/ . >> >Well, > >I am probably going to jump into this now without intending to but this really >does not answer his question - sorry Chris and I am not aiming this at you >Chris - This is simply an observation. He asked: > >>> So, if I want be able to rebuild all the cygwin packages, can I do that from >>> source downloaded with setup.exe? Can someone recommend a convenient way of >>> building a "test cygwin" from that source which can be switched to (via a >>> change to cygwin.bat) to try out changes? Or do I really have to go the cvs >>> route and work with the latest/greatest bleeding-edge packages? >>>If csv is the only/best way, does someone have a cookbook which will >>>allow me to setup a test environment, refresh the source, build >>>everything, make a change, test it out, submit a patch -- all while >>>keeping a working cygwin environment built off of setup.exe's download? I was responding to this part. It is at least a start for doing things. I'm sorry that this wasn't obvious. However, if it is not adequate, then it should be improved, right? This is similar to the "I already read the FAQ" post. If this was inadequate then we need to know how so that it can be improved. We don't know if the original poster already read this and found it inadequate or if he was completely unaware of its existence. I guess this wasn't obvious from my response. I promised to try to be more polite. I didn't promise that I would not be terse. >As someone who is trying to learn C++ and never really worked with it >much and as a contributor to the Cygwin project by contributing to >setup.exe these are questions that I and many others have asked before >at various times. I have read the above links before and probably >missed where the answers to John's questions were located but as far as >I can tell there isn't a lot to get someone going on contributing to >Cygwin. Ok. Then this is a problem. How would you like to fix it? I did spend some time a while ago trying to augment the information there but this is obviously old hat to me and you are saying that it is inadequate. (You did check the pages before responding, right?) I would appreciate update to the web pages that you find confusing. Checkout instructions are below. The Catch 22 is, of course, that the web pages are available under CVS. cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs AT sourceware DOT cygnus DOT com:/cvs/cygwin login cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs AT sourceware DOT cygnus DOT com:/cvs/cygwin co htdocs The directory "htdocs" will contain the web pages. If you post updates here, I'll see that they get added to the web site. When you make a change, the command "cvs diff -p" will produce the differences. >Or let me say there is a not a lot if you are inexperienced in cvs, >cygwin, C++, gcc, make as they are used in this environment. I have >essentially pieced together from various sources (you Chris and Earnie >and Dj and whole lot of others) and reading the man pages and asking >very pointed questions just enough to be able to make changes, compile >and test them and then submit them. I guess the problem that I have with all of this is you almost never see anyone in the gcc, or gdb projects professing that cvs checkout and building to be a major obstacle. I don't know what is so different about cygwin. This project seems to attract more "newbies". Maybe the "oldbies" are all using linux and disdaining Windows. >And while I have improved some of my techniques and even have some scripts to >do some of the updates and such for me - there is no "cookbook" which is what >he asked about. IMO, There shouldn't really need to be any cookbook. It should be as simple as following the instructions followed on: http://cygwin.com/cvs.html to check things out and then following the instructions in the FAQ under: How do I rebuild the tools on my NT box? to do the build. (I forgot to mention the FAQ previously) That is what I and many others do every day. Once you have the tools checked out and configured, it should be this simple: bash$ cd /src/winsup bash$ cvs update bash$ cd /bld/i686-pc-cygwin/winsup bash$ make Why do you need a build script for this? >I still cringe when I do an update from cvs and then have to do a >configure and make because I usually run into a load of problems that >takes me several days to get around. Brian, I am sorry that you are having problems but I don't appreciate this mystification of the whole process. It is not that hard. There are occasional problems that are caused by people (like me) making changes to things but the configure/make system changes only very rarely. Most of the time a simple "make clean; make all" fixes the problem. Very occasionally, you may have to wipe out your build directory and reconfigure (I've never had to do this but some people seem to think it fixes things). I can see that people could have problems setting up their original environment. The documentation could be improved there. Once the environment is set up, however, it should be pretty easy to keep it going. >Of course the fact I am on Win95 as many have pointed out and have no >clue what I am doing does not help. I guess it is possible that Win95 is the source of your problem. I do recall that you had strange problems building. I hate to say this but you seemed to be the only one who had these problems. Some people have problems with initial setup but, once they are beyond this, they usually are able to use "cvs update" and "make" from then on. >I also have never used the testsuite and have no idea how to. I have >never installed a cygwin I built from sources and have no idea how to >although I build it regularly since it is part of my build script when >I make changes to setup. Then perhaps someone will volunteer how to do this. You seem to be mystifying the process, again, however. Testing cygwin should be accomplished by typing "make check". Installing cygwin is tricky because you can't overwrite a running process. So, what do you do? You use the MS-DOS copy command to install it to your bin directory. Or, you drag it there with the GUI. The new cygwin dll is named new-cygwin1.dll because you don't want to create a cygwin1.dll while you're using the cygwin1.dll. And, then once you've figured all of this out, you can offer these pearls of wisdom to the mailing list as a modification to the FAQ or the user documentation or the web page. >While the web pages and the FAQ do tell you how to get the source and how to >send patches it really does not provide a cookbook. I realize that we all like >self starters and the major contributors do not like to have to answer these >simplistic questions --- but those of us who are trying to learn and to help >some times need a boost and a few pointers down the right path. The major contributors answer these questions all of the time. That is how you learned. >If I step on anyones toes here I am sorry and if I have overlooked things on >the web pages I am doubly sorry - for me (cause I've been missing out) and for >everyone else for having to put up with me asking. Food for thought for all of >us - for some of us it is just as hard to bring ourselves to ask the questions >as it is for the rest to have to read them over and over, but sometimes if you >do not know what it is you're looking for and/or how to ask for it - it's >mighty tough to find in a web page or faq. > >Gonna go hide now :-) This is another variation of the "This is what should be done" post. I am exhorting people to think about how they can improve things. The major contributors are professing burn-out. If you think that the documentation is inadequate, then improve it. Or, I guess, you can offer your observations here, and maybe someone else will be willing to improve it. cgf -- Unsubscribe info: http://cygwin.com/ml/#unsubscribe-simple Bug reporting: http://cygwin.com/bugs.html Documentation: http://cygwin.com/docs.html FAQ: http://cygwin.com/faq/