From: VGris AT aironet DOT com ("Griswold, Victor") Subject: RE: Cygnus Win32 B17.1: Port of Cyclic Software CVS 1.9 3 Mar 1997 16:13:49 -0800 Approved: cygnus DOT gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com Distribution: cygnus Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BC27DA.18F3DCC0" X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Original-To: Jim Kingdon Original-Cc: "gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com" , "bug-cvs AT prep DOT ai DOT mit DOT edu" X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63 Original-Sender: owner-gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC27DA.18F3DCC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Kingdon: ---------- From: Jim Kingdon Sent: Friday, February 28, 1997 6:41 PM To: Griswold, Victor Cc: gnu-win32 AT cygnus DOT com; bug-cvs AT prep DOT ai DOT mit DOT edu Subject: Re: Cygnus Win32 B17.1: Port of Cyclic Software CVS 1.9 First of all, let me thank you for being willing to work on CVS, and for the effort that you have put into things like being willing to run the "CVS sanity" tests. Even if the patches are not yet ready for inclusion in the main CVS source base, they can still be distributed elsewhere. That doesn't imply that the patches are "wrong" or "bad" or that your efforts are unappreciated. I do think that making it possible for CVS to build with Cygwin is A Good Thing (TM). You are welcome. Being able to run through the validation suite was a requirement from management here in order to demonstrate a lessening of risk in our migration from PVCS to CVS/RCS. As for your comments about Cyclic, if this is going to continue to be a matter of arguments and flames, I'd rather stop now. But perhaps I can point you in the direction of some resources that you perhaps were not aware of, and clarify a few issues: I have, and never have had, any intention of continuing arguments and flames. I stated clearly that I am willing to spend more time with the CVS maintainers communicating about these bugs/fixes. However, I still believe that a couple of hours of 'diff' reading would be extremely cost-effective for the purposes of stabilizing the main distribution of CVS (Sun platform, etc.) so that it would pass "CVS sanity" and correctly handle wrappers of binary files (not thoroughly tested by sanity.sh; we stress-tested it under _much_ more demanding conditions). For example, I believe you will find a potential resolution to the "can't import binary files under Windows-NT" bug listed prominently in the CVS 1997/03/03 BUGS file (and, if you don't mind a rather slow turnaround time at this point -- see below, I can work with you on incorporating the fixes in a "by the book" process). > Your email address indicates you work at Cyclic Software, supposedly the > maintainers of CVS. Cyclic are not the only maintainers of CVS. CVS is maintained by a group of people only some of which work at Cyclic. I know that some of them read bug-cvs. If someone else (even someone else at Cyclic, although I am the only full-time person at the moment), wants to look at the patches in question, I say *GREAT*! It wouldn't even have to be one of the maintainers, if someone wanted to take the patches and work on packaging them up as described in the HACKING file. Yes, I did read the HACKING file. My original intention was to try to package each-and-every bug fix separately as requested in the HACKING file. However, due to the rather significant number of bugs (no offense meant) and the amount of time spent forcing NT to run sanity.sh (no fault of CVS; it is part of the NT file system drivers, as commented about in my original posting), I am behind schedule on my "real work" and no longer authorized to spend any more bulk, all-at-once, time on CVS. I can, however, spend some time working to answer questions about and partition the diffs on an _as_needed_ basis (as stated in my earlier email). In other words, if you (or one of the other maintainers) wish to prioritize your interest in the non-WinNT-specific bugs, let me know and I can attempt to trickle through them over the next few weeks. Of course, by that time, you could... :-) (this offer of continued work is real, not sarcasm) > Perhaps it is because Cyclic Software has already found out about and > fixed those bugs internally We don't have any internal code base distinct from what you see in the nightly snapshots on ftp.cyclic.com. In addition to the snapshots, you might be interested in the commit-cvs mailing list (see HACKING from a snapshot of newer than 4 Feb 97). It is good for everyone that you do not have private branches for each major customer; that benefits all users and is a practice to be commended. I was unaware of this mailing list, since my snapshot was from some time in mid January, after 1997/01/15. > Perhaps it is because with a reliable piece of software, there will be > less of an incentive for people to purchase a maintenance contract > from Cyclic I don't know of any way to prove or disprove that notion, but I will offer my opinion: if we did that, then we might lock ourselves into a large share of a tiny market, but we would insure that CVS remains a bit player. I'd rather have a smaller slice of a large and growing CVS pie. That is good news. I must say that there has been some concern expressed in this mailing list about "free software" gradually becoming less and less free (only Cygnus' future track record about timely releases of Free cygwin32, under GPL, will demonstrate by action what their intentions are: and I personally suspect that things will be OK). With respect to slice-of-the-pie, note my comment above about migrating our development efforts away from PVCS and towards CVS/RCS. I also assure you that the reasoning behind requirements like needing to separate unrelated patches into separate submissions (as described in HACKING) _IS_ the desire to make CVS as reliable as possible. I can understand this as the ideal case, but, when one has many bugs at once in a product one must expect that, at times, there will be many bug fixes encountered at once (and a tested bug fix is generally much better than a mere cry of "it's broken!"). > Perhaps some of the bugs have been fixed through contributions on a > mailing list, but I have been unable to find an archive of the CVS > mailing list. There are some archives of info-cvs at http://tongue1.itc.nrcs.usda.gov/ (the page calls it "cvs-info"). I'm not sure I've seen any bug-cvs archives. Perhaps some volunteer would be interested in archiving bug-cvs and making that archive available. Thank you for pointing me to these archives. This location would be good to put in the CVS 'README file. I hope you understand that Cyclic is a very small company with very limited resources (see the annual report on our web site for details), which necessarily must be focused most strongly on what our customers are asking us for. We do try to do things which benefit non-customers as feasible, but we can only do so much. We have tried very hard to, as much as possible, set up CVS maintenance so that this does not result in us being a bottleneck. > Ah, [NT tkCVS] port just showed up on 2/17/97 (since I was last on > the Cyclic site). Thank you for the information. Hope you find it useful. I don't know much about it other than what is on the web site. Victor J. Griswold, D.Sc. Aironet Wireless Communications, Inc. voice: 330-664-7987 fax: 330-664-7301 email: (MS-Mail) vgris AT aironet DOT com (MIME) Victor DOT Griswold AT pobox DOT com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC27DA.18F3DCC0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ig4SAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQmAAQAhAAAAMkU1RDc4MjJENTkzRDAxMTgwNTAwODAwMDlFQzgz NzQA2gYBIIADAA4AAADNBwMAAwANADQADAABACgBAQWAAwAOAAAAzQcDAAMADgAAAAQAAQDtAAEN gAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBIABADkAAABSRTogQ3lnbnVzIFdpbjMyIEIxNy4xOiAgUG9ydCBvZiBDeWNs aWMgU29mdHdhcmUgQ1ZTIDEuOQAAEQEDkAYAYBQAABgAAAADAC4AAAAAAEAAOQAgBJoaBSi8AR4A cAABAAAAOQAAAFJFOiBDeWdudXMgV2luMzIgQjE3LjE6ICBQb3J0IG9mIEN5Y2xpYyBTb2Z0d2Fy ZSBDVlMgMS45AAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG8KAUakCJ4XTOT1RHQgFAIAAnsg3QAAAMABhCi0Eil AwAHEIUVAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABNUktJTkdET046LS0tLS0tLS0tLUZST006SklNS0lOR0RPTlNF TlQ6RlJJREFZLEZFQlJVQVJZMjgsMTk5NzY6NDFQTVRPOkdSSVNXT0xELFZJQ1RPUkNDOkdOVS1X 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